North West workers shouldn't need to use foodbanks says TUC regional secretary

St Helens Star: Jobs and pay are key factors Jobs and pay are key factors

PAY and jobs are the two biggest obstacles to economic recovery in the north west.

That’s the outlook for 2014 according to the Trade Union Congress regional secretary Lynn Collins.

Small signs of improvement in the economy and a welcome growth in jobs need bolstering and the problem of living standards needs tackling in the region where wages have failed to rise in line with inflation for five years.

She said: “The statistics show that Britain’s economic recovery is real but that is not how it feels here in the North West. This is because the government has failed to deliver a growth strategy based on rebalancing the economy through exports and investment. Instead growth is coming from rising house prices and people running down their savings. And while jobs growth is welcome, too many jobs are insecure and combine the three lows: low skill, low productivity and low pay.

“We have heard a lot about food banks and their growth in our region, and whilst there is an assumption they exist for those on benefits, we know that over the last year the biggest rise in food bank usage is by those in work, facing low wages and no guaranteed hours.”

She believes ths situation is because employers choose to pay low wages, despite the call for them to share rising profits.

“It’s a disgrace that workers have to turn to charities to put right the damage caused to working families by low wages. Paying a decent wage to all workers would reduce not only food bank dependency, but the benefits bill which currently tops up household income for those in low paid work. Employers should take responsibility and pay decent wages and this will be a big area of campaigning over the next 12 months,” she said.

Comments (35)

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12:29pm Tue 31 Dec 13

MrBenggo says...

The torries economic policy is based on low wages,I have yet to see a this Tory government speak out against zero hour employment contracts.
When in opposition,and Labour brought in the minimum wage,the Torries forecast mass redundancies due to firms not being able to afford to pay the minimum wage.
Danny Alexander,the Lib Dem first secretary to the treasury,and coalition minister,recently proudly opened a food bank.We are told Britain is the sixth biggest economy and yet we have people having to go to food banks to survive,I say it is a disgrace.
Low wages,part time hours and zero hour contracts,this is Britain under the Conservatives in 2013/14.
The torries economic policy is based on low wages,I have yet to see a this Tory government speak out against zero hour employment contracts. When in opposition,and Labour brought in the minimum wage,the Torries forecast mass redundancies due to firms not being able to afford to pay the minimum wage. Danny Alexander,the Lib Dem first secretary to the treasury,and coalition minister,recently proudly opened a food bank.We are told Britain is the sixth biggest economy and yet we have people having to go to food banks to survive,I say it is a disgrace. Low wages,part time hours and zero hour contracts,this is Britain under the Conservatives in 2013/14. MrBenggo

1:31pm Tue 31 Dec 13

barrie timpson says...

What about the food banks under Labour? Starting in 2005 their use tripled increased doubled , doubled again and increased in successive years.
They also oversaw the one of the biggest gaps in the rich poor divide.
New Labour were openly criticised by the Joseph Rowntree foundation for their poor attempts to tackle poverty.
Child poverty also increased under New Labour.
So - Britain under Labour - little difference really.
What about the food banks under Labour? Starting in 2005 their use tripled increased doubled , doubled again and increased in successive years. They also oversaw the one of the biggest gaps in the rich poor divide. New Labour were openly criticised by the Joseph Rowntree foundation for their poor attempts to tackle poverty. Child poverty also increased under New Labour. So - Britain under Labour - little difference really. barrie timpson

1:55pm Tue 31 Dec 13

smith&weston says...

'She believes ths situation is because employers choose to pay low wages, despite the call for them to share rising profits.' Really. Try looking at it this way. As a small company, buyers are turning the screw on us almost daily, demanding cheaper and cheaper prices with the usual threat of do it or we go else where. This reduces the percentage profit we take on every sale. So it's not a case of choosing to pay low wages, we simply can't magic money out of the air to increase them. I bet there's a few business owners in this town who do with out wages in order to make sure their staff are paid every week.
'She believes ths situation is because employers choose to pay low wages, despite the call for them to share rising profits.' Really. Try looking at it this way. As a small company, buyers are turning the screw on us almost daily, demanding cheaper and cheaper prices with the usual threat of do it or we go else where. This reduces the percentage profit we take on every sale. So it's not a case of choosing to pay low wages, we simply can't magic money out of the air to increase them. I bet there's a few business owners in this town who do with out wages in order to make sure their staff are paid every week. smith&weston

4:18pm Tue 31 Dec 13

jumperr says...

Join a union instead of trying to undercut one another .
Join a union instead of trying to undercut one another . jumperr

7:55pm Tue 31 Dec 13

saintsfan says...

MrBenggo wrote:
The torries economic policy is based on low wages,I have yet to see a this Tory government speak out against zero hour employment contracts.
When in opposition,and Labour brought in the minimum wage,the Torries forecast mass redundancies due to firms not being able to afford to pay the minimum wage.
Danny Alexander,the Lib Dem first secretary to the treasury,and coalition minister,recently proudly opened a food bank.We are told Britain is the sixth biggest economy and yet we have people having to go to food banks to survive,I say it is a disgrace.
Low wages,part time hours and zero hour contracts,this is Britain under the Conservatives in 2013/14.
Personally, I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to food banks and the article indicates why - I have never been convinced that only the unemployed/under resources are the only ones using them. What's to stop me, someone on a decent if not huge wage, walking into a food bank and getting my food for free? I would imagine there is nothing to stop me from doing so. That there is now an acknowledgement that people IN WORK are using them should surely signal the real reason why they are growing in number?

As to the problem with jobs in the North West, what the article does not include is reference to the economic fact that the public sector was relied upon for work to an inordinate degree in the North West and since it was the public sector where the debt has been incurred it is naturally that sector which has had to cut back and hence the relative low employment opportunities in the region.

If the likes of St Helens Council would work to attract real industry, instead of warehouses and shops, then perhaps some decent work would be forthcoming. However, if all councils in the region are anything like St Helens then all they will do is promote their dogma at the expense of their electorate.
[quote][p][bold]MrBenggo[/bold] wrote: The torries economic policy is based on low wages,I have yet to see a this Tory government speak out against zero hour employment contracts. When in opposition,and Labour brought in the minimum wage,the Torries forecast mass redundancies due to firms not being able to afford to pay the minimum wage. Danny Alexander,the Lib Dem first secretary to the treasury,and coalition minister,recently proudly opened a food bank.We are told Britain is the sixth biggest economy and yet we have people having to go to food banks to survive,I say it is a disgrace. Low wages,part time hours and zero hour contracts,this is Britain under the Conservatives in 2013/14.[/p][/quote]Personally, I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to food banks and the article indicates why - I have never been convinced that only the unemployed/under resources are the only ones using them. What's to stop me, someone on a decent if not huge wage, walking into a food bank and getting my food for free? I would imagine there is nothing to stop me from doing so. That there is now an acknowledgement that people IN WORK are using them should surely signal the real reason why they are growing in number? As to the problem with jobs in the North West, what the article does not include is reference to the economic fact that the public sector was relied upon for work to an inordinate degree in the North West and since it was the public sector where the debt has been incurred it is naturally that sector which has had to cut back and hence the relative low employment opportunities in the region. If the likes of St Helens Council would work to attract real industry, instead of warehouses and shops, then perhaps some decent work would be forthcoming. However, if all councils in the region are anything like St Helens then all they will do is promote their dogma at the expense of their electorate. saintsfan

9:47am Wed 1 Jan 14

barrie timpson says...

Hear hear saints. To some of your points. There is a genuine need for food banks unfortunately. Be it one under Labour or one under Conservatives it's a national shame.
Hear hear saints. To some of your points. There is a genuine need for food banks unfortunately. Be it one under Labour or one under Conservatives it's a national shame. barrie timpson

11:33am Wed 1 Jan 14

anthonywilson says...

saintsfan wrote:
MrBenggo wrote:
The torries economic policy is based on low wages,I have yet to see a this Tory government speak out against zero hour employment contracts.
When in opposition,and Labour brought in the minimum wage,the Torries forecast mass redundancies due to firms not being able to afford to pay the minimum wage.
Danny Alexander,the Lib Dem first secretary to the treasury,and coalition minister,recently proudly opened a food bank.We are told Britain is the sixth biggest economy and yet we have people having to go to food banks to survive,I say it is a disgrace.
Low wages,part time hours and zero hour contracts,this is Britain under the Conservatives in 2013/14.
Personally, I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to food banks and the article indicates why - I have never been convinced that only the unemployed/under resources are the only ones using them. What's to stop me, someone on a decent if not huge wage, walking into a food bank and getting my food for free? I would imagine there is nothing to stop me from doing so. That there is now an acknowledgement that people IN WORK are using them should surely signal the real reason why they are growing in number?

As to the problem with jobs in the North West, what the article does not include is reference to the economic fact that the public sector was relied upon for work to an inordinate degree in the North West and since it was the public sector where the debt has been incurred it is naturally that sector which has had to cut back and hence the relative low employment opportunities in the region.

If the likes of St Helens Council would work to attract real industry, instead of warehouses and shops, then perhaps some decent work would be forthcoming. However, if all councils in the region are anything like St Helens then all they will do is promote their dogma at the expense of their electorate.
Just to clear a point you made.
You or anyone else cannot just walk into a foodbank and get food for free.
There is a referral system where persons in need have to be referred to a foodbank either via the job centre, GP or social services etc. Food will not be given to anyone just turning up chancing their arm. Most Foodbanks will only support people for a limited time and in the case of the Trussel Trust network of foodbanks, they will only support people for a maximum of three occasions regardless of financial and personal circumstances.
I agree with your other points about the cuts in the public sector being one of the reasons for lower employment opportunities in the region and the need for St Helens Council to do more to attract new industry to the area other than retailing, warehousing, supermarkets etc.
[quote][p][bold]saintsfan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrBenggo[/bold] wrote: The torries economic policy is based on low wages,I have yet to see a this Tory government speak out against zero hour employment contracts. When in opposition,and Labour brought in the minimum wage,the Torries forecast mass redundancies due to firms not being able to afford to pay the minimum wage. Danny Alexander,the Lib Dem first secretary to the treasury,and coalition minister,recently proudly opened a food bank.We are told Britain is the sixth biggest economy and yet we have people having to go to food banks to survive,I say it is a disgrace. Low wages,part time hours and zero hour contracts,this is Britain under the Conservatives in 2013/14.[/p][/quote]Personally, I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to food banks and the article indicates why - I have never been convinced that only the unemployed/under resources are the only ones using them. What's to stop me, someone on a decent if not huge wage, walking into a food bank and getting my food for free? I would imagine there is nothing to stop me from doing so. That there is now an acknowledgement that people IN WORK are using them should surely signal the real reason why they are growing in number? As to the problem with jobs in the North West, what the article does not include is reference to the economic fact that the public sector was relied upon for work to an inordinate degree in the North West and since it was the public sector where the debt has been incurred it is naturally that sector which has had to cut back and hence the relative low employment opportunities in the region. If the likes of St Helens Council would work to attract real industry, instead of warehouses and shops, then perhaps some decent work would be forthcoming. However, if all councils in the region are anything like St Helens then all they will do is promote their dogma at the expense of their electorate.[/p][/quote]Just to clear a point you made. You or anyone else cannot just walk into a foodbank and get food for free. There is a referral system where persons in need have to be referred to a foodbank either via the job centre, GP or social services etc. Food will not be given to anyone just turning up chancing their arm. Most Foodbanks will only support people for a limited time and in the case of the Trussel Trust network of foodbanks, they will only support people for a maximum of three occasions regardless of financial and personal circumstances. I agree with your other points about the cuts in the public sector being one of the reasons for lower employment opportunities in the region and the need for St Helens Council to do more to attract new industry to the area other than retailing, warehousing, supermarkets etc. anthonywilson

12:03pm Wed 1 Jan 14

jumperr says...

Always better to feed on the truth than propaganda
Always better to feed on the truth than propaganda jumperr

12:39pm Wed 1 Jan 14

kjd161 says...

smith&weston wrote:
'She believes ths situation is because employers choose to pay low wages, despite the call for them to share rising profits.' Really. Try looking at it this way. As a small company, buyers are turning the screw on us almost daily, demanding cheaper and cheaper prices with the usual threat of do it or we go else where. This reduces the percentage profit we take on every sale. So it's not a case of choosing to pay low wages, we simply can't magic money out of the air to increase them. I bet there's a few business owners in this town who do with out wages in order to make sure their staff are paid every week.
How much is the bet for? I'll have some of that.
[quote][p][bold]smith&weston[/bold] wrote: 'She believes ths situation is because employers choose to pay low wages, despite the call for them to share rising profits.' Really. Try looking at it this way. As a small company, buyers are turning the screw on us almost daily, demanding cheaper and cheaper prices with the usual threat of do it or we go else where. This reduces the percentage profit we take on every sale. So it's not a case of choosing to pay low wages, we simply can't magic money out of the air to increase them. I bet there's a few business owners in this town who do with out wages in order to make sure their staff are paid every week.[/p][/quote]How much is the bet for? I'll have some of that. kjd161

4:26pm Wed 1 Jan 14

Bill Bradbury says...

barrie timpson wrote:
Hear hear saints. To some of your points. There is a genuine need for food banks unfortunately. Be it one under Labour or one under Conservatives it's a national shame.
About the best comment on this topic. Zero hour contracts are becoming quite common as well as low pay as most businesses are out to make a profit, or save money, as each undercut each other to stay afloat with employees being the most expensive call on their cash flow and the first to be sacked or laid off. It is "you should be lucky to have a job" syndrome--at any price.
I will give you a verbal quote to me (excuse) when I mentioned my Parish Council's letter on these contracts "you are not in the business of employing people", which means to my interpretation they are legitimate in saving money. I am told some peripetetic music teachers are paid on such-employed when needed the equivalent to the old dockers "tap on the shoulder" the get work. There are other public sector workers paid on such.
This and food banks are a sign of the times when one could be without a wage for a number of weeks awaiting for the call to come into work usually for limited hours then nothing for weeks.
How do i know? In a recent by-election we came across a few people who spoke to some of our canvassers on this hence the letter. We will be interested on the written response.

Barrie I will be interested where these food banks were situated when Labour was in power as you claim. I thought the massive increase of them came under this Tory Government. Where was the food bank in St.Helens before this Government came into power?
[quote][p][bold]barrie timpson[/bold] wrote: Hear hear saints. To some of your points. There is a genuine need for food banks unfortunately. Be it one under Labour or one under Conservatives it's a national shame.[/p][/quote]About the best comment on this topic. Zero hour contracts are becoming quite common as well as low pay as most businesses are out to make a profit, or save money, as each undercut each other to stay afloat with employees being the most expensive call on their cash flow and the first to be sacked or laid off. It is "you should be lucky to have a job" syndrome--at any price. I will give you a verbal quote to me (excuse) when I mentioned my Parish Council's letter on these contracts "you are not in the business of employing people", which means to my interpretation they are legitimate in saving money. I am told some peripetetic music teachers are paid on such-employed when needed the equivalent to the old dockers "tap on the shoulder" the get work. There are other public sector workers paid on such. This and food banks are a sign of the times when one could be without a wage for a number of weeks awaiting for the call to come into work usually for limited hours then nothing for weeks. How do i know? In a recent by-election we came across a few people who spoke to some of our canvassers on this hence the letter. We will be interested on the written response. Barrie I will be interested where these food banks were situated when Labour was in power as you claim. I thought the massive increase of them came under this Tory Government. Where was the food bank in St.Helens before this Government came into power? Bill Bradbury

5:23pm Wed 1 Jan 14

barrie timpson says...

http://fullfact.org/
factchecks/food_pove
rty_living_standards
-28692

The first food bank in England opened in 2005 , it's numbers 2,814.

The next year we have numbers of 9,174

The year after 13,349 (coincidentally the same year as Cherie Blair spent 8k of taxpayers money on a hairdo)

anyway onto 08-09 the number rose to 25,899

9-10 gives us 61,48

The current figure stands at 128,697.

So it's a shameful record for both parties - but it can also be said that we had never heard of or seen a food bank until Labour.

Not very good is it.
http://fullfact.org/ factchecks/food_pove rty_living_standards -28692 The first food bank in England opened in 2005 , it's numbers 2,814. The next year we have numbers of 9,174 The year after 13,349 (coincidentally the same year as Cherie Blair spent 8k of taxpayers money on a hairdo) anyway onto 08-09 the number rose to 25,899 9-10 gives us 61,48 The current figure stands at 128,697. So it's a shameful record for both parties - but it can also be said that we had never heard of or seen a food bank until Labour. Not very good is it. barrie timpson

5:31pm Wed 1 Jan 14

barrie timpson says...

and no there was no food ban in St Helens I don't think - which must have been a great comfort to the people using them elsewhere in the country.....

Also a travesty that my local church has been donating to food banks from the start and doesn't get a mention , yet the one time our local Mosque musters a few packets of custard together our left wing comrades at the star our ramming down our throats.

Equality - isn't it just ace.
and no there was no food ban in St Helens I don't think - which must have been a great comfort to the people using them elsewhere in the country..... Also a travesty that my local church has been donating to food banks from the start and doesn't get a mention , yet the one time our local Mosque musters a few packets of custard together our left wing comrades at the star our ramming down our throats. Equality - isn't it just ace. barrie timpson

5:38pm Wed 1 Jan 14

barrie timpson says...

“The use of food banks went up tenfold under the last Labour government.”
David Cameron, 16 January 2013

Fact.

http://blogs.channel
4.com/factcheck/food
-banks-is-cameron-on
-the-money/12486

So like I say , when New Labour were doing their best to remove any power of border control we ever had - the indigenous population was beginning to starve.
“The use of food banks went up tenfold under the last Labour government.” David Cameron, 16 January 2013 Fact. http://blogs.channel 4.com/factcheck/food -banks-is-cameron-on -the-money/12486 So like I say , when New Labour were doing their best to remove any power of border control we ever had - the indigenous population was beginning to starve. barrie timpson

5:41pm Wed 1 Jan 14

barrie timpson says...

On the subject of "socialism" - I see all is well in France........
On the subject of "socialism" - I see all is well in France........ barrie timpson

5:50pm Wed 1 Jan 14

barrie timpson says...

"food banks are a sign of the times when one could be without a wage for a number of weeks awaiting for the call to come into work usually for limited hours then nothing for weeks."

Your words Bill , and a good analogy of New Labours success.
"food banks are a sign of the times when one could be without a wage for a number of weeks awaiting for the call to come into work usually for limited hours then nothing for weeks." Your words Bill , and a good analogy of New Labours success. barrie timpson

6:58pm Wed 1 Jan 14

jumperr says...

If socialism is not the answer what is,surely it can't be the system that has brought the world to knees for the (workers)
If socialism is not the answer what is,surely it can't be the system that has brought the world to knees for the (workers) jumperr

9:01pm Wed 1 Jan 14

barrie timpson says...

Do you have any ideas?
Do you have any ideas? barrie timpson

9:31pm Wed 1 Jan 14

jumperr says...

Obviously you haven't
Obviously you haven't jumperr

9:59pm Wed 1 Jan 14

barrie timpson says...

Then we're stuck.
Then we're stuck. barrie timpson

10:13pm Wed 1 Jan 14

jumperr says...

Come on that's not the attitude, (you might find somewhere to park)
Come on that's not the attitude, (you might find somewhere to park) jumperr

10:32pm Wed 1 Jan 14

barrie timpson says...

If the was some kind of alternative , somewhere in between socialism and capitalism - surely they would romp home.
If the was some kind of alternative , somewhere in between socialism and capitalism - surely they would romp home. barrie timpson

10:56pm Wed 1 Jan 14

jumperr says...

What would change the parties is getting a lot more out to vote ,then you could start doing what the maj of the country wanted,but with the numbers that turn out it is always going to be ping pong or coalition.
What would change the parties is getting a lot more out to vote ,then you could start doing what the maj of the country wanted,but with the numbers that turn out it is always going to be ping pong or coalition. jumperr

11:19pm Wed 1 Jan 14

barrie timpson says...

I agree.
I agree. barrie timpson

9:48am Thu 2 Jan 14

Bill Bradbury says...

Apologise Barrie for not getting back-I have been busy. Yes the churches as the Archbishop of Canterbury says has been the "glue" in helping the less fortunate.
Your references to those banks under Labour is true BUT there has always been charitable organisations in the past century under ALL Governments that has set up such to provide a need. What you don't accept is that under this Government they have taken off with a vengeance, much to do with the cut in benefits and being forced into low paid work. I know people who are tasked to this to cut the benefit bill and forced into low paid work or zero hours contracts and why the food banks get more people each week. This is first hand knowledge.
On this topic it is interesting to read in today's Times that employers are advertising abroad for Immigrants to take up these low paid jobs as we have mentioned in past comments, one of the problems is that workers in this country won't take them up many being less than minimum wage which is far better than immigrants get in their own countries. That is why in hotels you will find cleaners and those who wash up are in the main from other countries.
My friend in UKIP told me they have no objection to these coming into the country which appears to me as a bit of a contradiction to their policy of reducing immigration apart from opting out of the EU. Food banks as you say are not what should happen under any Governmnet.
Apologise Barrie for not getting back-I have been busy. Yes the churches as the Archbishop of Canterbury says has been the "glue" in helping the less fortunate. Your references to those banks under Labour is true BUT there has always been charitable organisations in the past century under ALL Governments that has set up such to provide a need. What you don't accept is that under this Government they have taken off with a vengeance, much to do with the cut in benefits and being forced into low paid work. I know people who are tasked to this to cut the benefit bill and forced into low paid work or zero hours contracts and why the food banks get more people each week. This is first hand knowledge. On this topic it is interesting to read in today's Times that employers are advertising abroad for Immigrants to take up these low paid jobs as we have mentioned in past comments, one of the problems is that workers in this country won't take them up many being less than minimum wage which is far better than immigrants get in their own countries. That is why in hotels you will find cleaners and those who wash up are in the main from other countries. My friend in UKIP told me they have no objection to these coming into the country which appears to me as a bit of a contradiction to their policy of reducing immigration apart from opting out of the EU. Food banks as you say are not what should happen under any Governmnet. Bill Bradbury

9:52am Thu 2 Jan 14

barrie timpson says...

To be fair Bill , you won't get much of an argument from me on this one , it's a national disgrace that we can't look after our own. It doesn't matter if it's Labour , Tory or Lib Dem , the fact that we have people having to rely on food hand outs , be it 60 thousand or 120 thousand is beyond lamentable.
To be fair Bill , you won't get much of an argument from me on this one , it's a national disgrace that we can't look after our own. It doesn't matter if it's Labour , Tory or Lib Dem , the fact that we have people having to rely on food hand outs , be it 60 thousand or 120 thousand is beyond lamentable. barrie timpson

9:25pm Thu 2 Jan 14

saintsfan says...

Thanks to the poster above who advised me about the criteria for obtaining food from a foodbank. However, I still remain skeptical. If I were to go to my GP now and state I was in dire need of help, would my GP challenge me? Nope! I think I would find little difficulty in obtaining food from a foodbank even though it would be immoral for me to take that route.
Thanks to the poster above who advised me about the criteria for obtaining food from a foodbank. However, I still remain skeptical. If I were to go to my GP now and state I was in dire need of help, would my GP challenge me? Nope! I think I would find little difficulty in obtaining food from a foodbank even though it would be immoral for me to take that route. saintsfan

9:32pm Thu 2 Jan 14

saintsfan says...

barrie timpson wrote:
To be fair Bill , you won't get much of an argument from me on this one , it's a national disgrace that we can't look after our own. It doesn't matter if it's Labour , Tory or Lib Dem , the fact that we have people having to rely on food hand outs , be it 60 thousand or 120 thousand is beyond lamentable.
Barrie, people have been relying upon handouts since human beings first walked the earth. It is a sad fact that there will always be poor people (even if poverty in our country is nothing like that which we see in harrowing reports on TV). There is never enough to go round. But so long as there are enough better off people willing to offer support in times of need then those who are struggling will be provided for. There is nothing shameful in receiving help. I have received it myself. It is humbling but that in itself can make a person remember to provide for others during their own good times.
[quote][p][bold]barrie timpson[/bold] wrote: To be fair Bill , you won't get much of an argument from me on this one , it's a national disgrace that we can't look after our own. It doesn't matter if it's Labour , Tory or Lib Dem , the fact that we have people having to rely on food hand outs , be it 60 thousand or 120 thousand is beyond lamentable.[/p][/quote]Barrie, people have been relying upon handouts since human beings first walked the earth. It is a sad fact that there will always be poor people (even if poverty in our country is nothing like that which we see in harrowing reports on TV). There is never enough to go round. But so long as there are enough better off people willing to offer support in times of need then those who are struggling will be provided for. There is nothing shameful in receiving help. I have received it myself. It is humbling but that in itself can make a person remember to provide for others during their own good times. saintsfan

10:44pm Thu 2 Jan 14

barrie timpson says...

**** good post that sir.
**** good post that sir. barrie timpson

11:32pm Thu 2 Jan 14

jumperr says...

When we are innit together where does the better me than you come into it,that is what starts the problems it is called greed .
When we are innit together where does the better me than you come into it,that is what starts the problems it is called greed . jumperr

4:46pm Sat 4 Jan 14

kjd161 says...

saintsfan wrote:
barrie timpson wrote:
To be fair Bill , you won't get much of an argument from me on this one , it's a national disgrace that we can't look after our own. It doesn't matter if it's Labour , Tory or Lib Dem , the fact that we have people having to rely on food hand outs , be it 60 thousand or 120 thousand is beyond lamentable.
Barrie, people have been relying upon handouts since human beings first walked the earth. It is a sad fact that there will always be poor people (even if poverty in our country is nothing like that which we see in harrowing reports on TV). There is never enough to go round. But so long as there are enough better off people willing to offer support in times of need then those who are struggling will be provided for. There is nothing shameful in receiving help. I have received it myself. It is humbling but that in itself can make a person remember to provide for others during their own good times.
But there IS enough to go round. Our own small country throws enough good food away to feed the world's starving. Throw in the rest of Europe, the US, all the other prosperous countries in the Far East, Middle East, Australasia, etc, and there's MORE than enough to go round. The problem is , as an above poster said, greed. It's also a fair and equal distribution problem. It's also the problem of giant corporations paying slave labour wages in sweat shops, and us greedy consumers turning a blind eye to that. All these problems will never go away because of man's greed. For power over others as much as anything else.
[quote][p][bold]saintsfan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]barrie timpson[/bold] wrote: To be fair Bill , you won't get much of an argument from me on this one , it's a national disgrace that we can't look after our own. It doesn't matter if it's Labour , Tory or Lib Dem , the fact that we have people having to rely on food hand outs , be it 60 thousand or 120 thousand is beyond lamentable.[/p][/quote]Barrie, people have been relying upon handouts since human beings first walked the earth. It is a sad fact that there will always be poor people (even if poverty in our country is nothing like that which we see in harrowing reports on TV). There is never enough to go round. But so long as there are enough better off people willing to offer support in times of need then those who are struggling will be provided for. There is nothing shameful in receiving help. I have received it myself. It is humbling but that in itself can make a person remember to provide for others during their own good times.[/p][/quote]But there IS enough to go round. Our own small country throws enough good food away to feed the world's starving. Throw in the rest of Europe, the US, all the other prosperous countries in the Far East, Middle East, Australasia, etc, and there's MORE than enough to go round. The problem is , as an above poster said, greed. It's also a fair and equal distribution problem. It's also the problem of giant corporations paying slave labour wages in sweat shops, and us greedy consumers turning a blind eye to that. All these problems will never go away because of man's greed. For power over others as much as anything else. kjd161

5:51pm Sat 4 Jan 14

jumperr says...

Quite right why should the greedy few have excess to everything to the detriment of everybody world wide the resources is for everybody .
Quite right why should the greedy few have excess to everything to the detriment of everybody world wide the resources is for everybody . jumperr

6:24pm Sat 4 Jan 14

jumperr says...

Who would of thought the unions telling the truth and the govt not(miners strike how many others ) economical with the truth these are the people who stand as our representatives .
Who would of thought the unions telling the truth and the govt not(miners strike how many others ) economical with the truth these are the people who stand as our representatives . jumperr

2:59pm Sun 5 Jan 14

keepitreel says...

i notice a few on these pages keep harping on about min wage,this is only applicable to people employed directly by the company they work for,the LABOUR party under BROWN introduced as part of the opening of the flood gates to eastern european countries a clause that the present goverment is trying to close,this clause allows agencies that have an office (a girl/boy on a phone) to pay less than min wage and that any tax profit to be paid in country of oragin,on top of this most people on contracts with these agencies have to pay for lodgings and clothing as well as food,so you cant blame firms if they can get a worker for a fraction of the cost of a local,they pay a set fee per worker,i know one outfit that pays in real term less than £3 ph for a quilified joiner to work on social housing jobs.
i notice a few on these pages keep harping on about min wage,this is only applicable to people employed directly by the company they work for,the LABOUR party under BROWN introduced as part of the opening of the flood gates to eastern european countries a clause that the present goverment is trying to close,this clause allows agencies that have an office (a girl/boy on a phone) to pay less than min wage and that any tax profit to be paid in country of oragin,on top of this most people on contracts with these agencies have to pay for lodgings and clothing as well as food,so you cant blame firms if they can get a worker for a fraction of the cost of a local,they pay a set fee per worker,i know one outfit that pays in real term less than £3 ph for a quilified joiner to work on social housing jobs. keepitreel

3:52pm Sun 5 Jan 14

barrie timpson says...

There were pro's and cons to the minimum wage.
Many jobs that paid more just changed to the minimum wage. So it wasn't all good.
There were pro's and cons to the minimum wage. Many jobs that paid more just changed to the minimum wage. So it wasn't all good. barrie timpson

11:15pm Sun 5 Jan 14

jumperr says...

Terrible how they do things knowing that it is not in anybody's interest
Terrible how they do things knowing that it is not in anybody's interest jumperr

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