Gove wants teachers to 'get tough' on bad behaviour

St Helens Star: Gove wants teachers to 'get tough' on bad behaviour Gove wants teachers to 'get tough' on bad behaviour

Misbehaving pupils face the prospect of being told to pick up litter or write out lines hundreds of times under plans by Education Secretary Michael Gove for a return to traditional classroom discipline.

New guidelines for teachers, to be issued this week, will say that "tough but proportionate" punishments such as writing lines "are just as crucial to an effective education as praising and rewarding good behaviour", the Department for Education (DfE) said.

Penalties could include picking up litter in the playgrounds, weeding, tidying classrooms and removing graffiti. Pupils could also be ordered to report to school early, clean dining halls or forfeit privileges such as joining in a non-uniform day.

Mr Gove, who has long railed against "trendy" teaching methods, said he wanted to send a message to teachers that they should not be afraid to "get tough" on bad behaviour in school.

"I think it is absolutely right to say to students that if they have in some way undermined discipline or contributed to the deterioration of the fabric of a school building that they should be responsible for clearing up after school lunch, clearing up litter or weeding the school playing field," he told BBC1's The Andrew Marr Show.

"People need to understand that there are consequences if they break those rules and teachers have the power to enforce them."

Mr Gove also indicated that in the longer term he favoured moving to a longer school day - although he rejected the idea of shorter school holidays recently put forward by a former No 10 adviser.

"I do think that we do need to have a longer school day. I don't believe that this should be mandated like that from the centre right now," he said.

"I think the critical thing that we need to do is to work with the profession in order to ensure that we can provide the extra curricula activities at the beginning and the end of the day and at lunchtime that students get in private fee-paying schools. One of the things that we need to look at is exactly how it can be delivered appropriately."

The DfE said that while current guidelines on school discipline make clear the legal backing for setting school punishments, they fail to outline potential sanctions, leaving many heads and teachers unclear of what action they can take.

There has been significant progress on improving behaviour since 2010, the DfE added, but a lmost one in three secondary teachers do not feel confident using the powers they have to discipline pupils. Around 700,000 pupils are currently attending schools with behaviour issues, according to Ofsted statistics.

The latest guidelines were dismissed as a "cheap attempt at headline grabbing" by Chris Keates, general secretary of the NASUWT teaching union.

"Given the appalling track record of this coalition Government in supporting teachers, the Secretary of State's claims that he wants to give teachers confidence to tackle pupil indiscipline will have a hollow ring in classrooms across the country," she said.

"The almost daily denigration of teachers' professionalism and competence by coalition ministers and their supporters has undermined teachers' confidence.

"Teachers are increasingly led and managed, not by lead practitioners who understand the day to day realities of teaching, but by those whose only regular contact with the classroom is to drop in on lessons to criticise the teacher and lay the blame for poor pupil behaviour on the teacher rather than the pupil."

Kevin Courtney, deputy general secretary of the National Union of Teachers, said: " It has to be remembered that the majority of our schools have good levels of behaviour and many of the deterrents mentioned, such as litter detention, will already be used in many schools."

Comments (50)

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5:29pm Sun 2 Feb 14

barrie timpson says...

Sounds like a good idea. But I can already see the fruit tea and copies of The Guardian being thrown in a rage. A politically correct rage that is.
Sounds like a good idea. But I can already see the fruit tea and copies of The Guardian being thrown in a rage. A politically correct rage that is. barrie timpson
  • Score: 7

5:48pm Sun 2 Feb 14

jumperr says...

Why did it stop.
Why did it stop. jumperr
  • Score: 1

6:03pm Sun 2 Feb 14

peterxu says...

Please do some research into the high suicide rate of children in the countries where they are pushed to succeed.....like Japan.
Our children do NOT exist for the benefit of the state....unlike China.
Our children do NOT exist for the benefit of the corporate machine.
I would rather have a happy child than a smart one.
If my kids grow up to live on benefit then as long as they are happy, I am happy.
Children are NOT an exam machine.
Take your high pressure teaching techniques and shove 'em where the sun don't shine.
Please do some research into the high suicide rate of children in the countries where they are pushed to succeed.....like Japan. Our children do NOT exist for the benefit of the state....unlike China. Our children do NOT exist for the benefit of the corporate machine. I would rather have a happy child than a smart one. If my kids grow up to live on benefit then as long as they are happy, I am happy. Children are NOT an exam machine. Take your high pressure teaching techniques and shove 'em where the sun don't shine. peterxu
  • Score: -9

6:05pm Sun 2 Feb 14

peterxu says...

Needless to say, this is stupid. Many of the worst instances of misbehaviour are manifestations of underlying problems outside of the learning environment. The best way to deal with it is to approach the learner about the issue and work with them at resolving both the behavioural and the underlying problems.
Needless to say, this is stupid. Many of the worst instances of misbehaviour are manifestations of underlying problems outside of the learning environment. The best way to deal with it is to approach the learner about the issue and work with them at resolving both the behavioural and the underlying problems. peterxu
  • Score: -8

10:54pm Sun 2 Feb 14

Bill Bradbury says...

The Mr.Silly of education still thinks that state schools are run on Eton and Public school lines. "Give that boy 3 de-merit points"
The Mr.Silly of education still thinks that state schools are run on Eton and Public school lines. "Give that boy 3 de-merit points" Bill Bradbury
  • Score: -8

11:49pm Sun 2 Feb 14

barrie timpson says...

What an utter crock of schlock.
Doing some litter picking or some lines is not going to drive anybody to suicide.
Whilst I appreciate that some bad behaviour is the result of external problems , children must be taught that ill behaviour will have consequences.
I loved fighting when I was at school , I loved smoking pot whilst at school , I was a tear away.
I had a loving family and all the things I needed , I was just a little ****.
Now , I'm glad that my teachers took a firm hand with me and put me on the correct path by using things like lines and detention, and to be fair if somebody had took the soft approach with me I would have laughed in their face.
What an utter crock of schlock. Doing some litter picking or some lines is not going to drive anybody to suicide. Whilst I appreciate that some bad behaviour is the result of external problems , children must be taught that ill behaviour will have consequences. I loved fighting when I was at school , I loved smoking pot whilst at school , I was a tear away. I had a loving family and all the things I needed , I was just a little ****. Now , I'm glad that my teachers took a firm hand with me and put me on the correct path by using things like lines and detention, and to be fair if somebody had took the soft approach with me I would have laughed in their face. barrie timpson
  • Score: 6

8:56am Mon 3 Feb 14

frankly says...

bring back national service, and take them away from their mummies, even the girls.. let them learn respect like here in Switzerland.
bring back national service, and take them away from their mummies, even the girls.. let them learn respect like here in Switzerland. frankly
  • Score: 3

9:01am Mon 3 Feb 14

jumperr says...

When you can't go shopping without problems of any sort,(gov't we have a problem)
When you can't go shopping without problems of any sort,(gov't we have a problem) jumperr
  • Score: 1

3:13pm Mon 3 Feb 14

Sankey says...

Oh dear discipline in schools we can't have that can we ?

Cue the social engineers and left wing gove haters resisting all progress

Suicide ? Are we being serious ? What about the kids who want to learn or who are being bullied by out of control feral kids who know they can do as they wish and they are right. And what about the teachers ? Those that want to do a good job that is having their work made ten times harder and sole destroying by having to manage crowd control.

The trendy social engineers and the militant change resisters in education can go and do one.

The more I hear about Michael gove the more I like him and the same goes for the majority of decent people pupils, parents and teachers who want a proper education system.
Oh dear discipline in schools we can't have that can we ? Cue the social engineers and left wing gove haters resisting all progress Suicide ? Are we being serious ? What about the kids who want to learn or who are being bullied by out of control feral kids who know they can do as they wish and they are right. And what about the teachers ? Those that want to do a good job that is having their work made ten times harder and sole destroying by having to manage crowd control. The trendy social engineers and the militant change resisters in education can go and do one. The more I hear about Michael gove the more I like him and the same goes for the majority of decent people pupils, parents and teachers who want a proper education system. Sankey
  • Score: 6

3:23pm Mon 3 Feb 14

Sankey says...

Would rather have a happy child doing as they wish in schools getting no education and living a happy life on benefits, So says our "right on"social engineer above.

Pretty much sums up why we have thousands of blighted lives in Britain just as we see in parts of St. Helens. Employers here would prefer to take better educated and disciplined peope from Eastern Europe and so they do and who can blame them?

Who asked for this situation ? And who voted for it ?

Because I don't remember being asked or it being in any of the parties manifestos.

That's because it was not there nor was it ever the politicans intention more the secret self serving education establishment has created this nightmare.
Would rather have a happy child doing as they wish in schools getting no education and living a happy life on benefits, So says our "right on"social engineer above. Pretty much sums up why we have thousands of blighted lives in Britain just as we see in parts of St. Helens. Employers here would prefer to take better educated and disciplined peope from Eastern Europe and so they do and who can blame them? Who asked for this situation ? And who voted for it ? Because I don't remember being asked or it being in any of the parties manifestos. That's because it was not there nor was it ever the politicans intention more the secret self serving education establishment has created this nightmare. Sankey
  • Score: 5

3:29pm Mon 3 Feb 14

jumperr says...

That's it Sankey we should have tick boxes every 6mths, because they never follow what they say
That's it Sankey we should have tick boxes every 6mths, because they never follow what they say jumperr
  • Score: 1

5:24pm Mon 3 Feb 14

Bill Bradbury says...

Sankey wrote:
Would rather have a happy child doing as they wish in schools getting no education and living a happy life on benefits, So says our "right on"social engineer above. Pretty much sums up why we have thousands of blighted lives in Britain just as we see in parts of St. Helens. Employers here would prefer to take better educated and disciplined peope from Eastern Europe and so they do and who can blame them? Who asked for this situation ? And who voted for it ? Because I don't remember being asked or it being in any of the parties manifestos. That's because it was not there nor was it ever the politicans intention more the secret self serving education establishment has created this nightmare.
So speaks the Tory authority on Education. Some of the comments must be right for they have all been to school.
"Employers taking better Educated and disciplined people" nothing to do with they are prepared to do the jobs that our workshy do not want and especially they can be paid less than minimum wage or no wage at all as a recent "Benefits" programme showed- the "agencies" see to that and send their thugs round if they cause trouble.
The problem lies with over 40 years of political interference and rom the current idiot who has littler knowledge of state education but that of Eton and other large fe3e paying schools.
They do have the ultimate sanction of parents being told to take their kid away. Lines?-what sort of punishment is that apart from being a total waste of education time, if they are ever done at all? One contemporary of mine amassed 4000 as they were doubled every time he refused to do them-- he never did. As to picking up litter I thought schools tried to encourage pupils not to drop it. Detention? -You have to inform parents and the more "enlightened" refuse to turn up. Expulsion? Frowned upon and punished by Ofsted-schools should not let kids get into that position. Few schools now expel as it costs a loss of approx.£3,500.

Some may hanker after Corporal Punishment (my preferred option to detention when I was a pupil) as "It never did me any harm" (twitch, twitch) but would result today in the sack and a court appearance. As I have written many times some of you ought to spend a few days in school and you will soon see the problems teachers face and the few sanctions they have.

But who am I to comment? I have only spent 40 years teaching and another 10 as a Governor of 4 schools. The only reason why Gove is right is that it panders to the anti Labour commentators and right wing press. I bow to Sankey's superior knowledge.
[quote][p][bold]Sankey[/bold] wrote: Would rather have a happy child doing as they wish in schools getting no education and living a happy life on benefits, So says our "right on"social engineer above. Pretty much sums up why we have thousands of blighted lives in Britain just as we see in parts of St. Helens. Employers here would prefer to take better educated and disciplined peope from Eastern Europe and so they do and who can blame them? Who asked for this situation ? And who voted for it ? Because I don't remember being asked or it being in any of the parties manifestos. That's because it was not there nor was it ever the politicans intention more the secret self serving education establishment has created this nightmare.[/p][/quote]So speaks the Tory authority on Education. Some of the comments must be right for they have all been to school. "Employers taking better Educated and disciplined people" nothing to do with they are prepared to do the jobs that our workshy do not want and especially they can be paid less than minimum wage or no wage at all as a recent "Benefits" programme showed- the "agencies" see to that and send their thugs round if they cause trouble. The problem lies with over 40 years of political interference and rom the current idiot who has littler knowledge of state education but that of Eton and other large fe3e paying schools. They do have the ultimate sanction of parents being told to take their kid away. Lines?-what sort of punishment is that apart from being a total waste of education time, if they are ever done at all? One contemporary of mine amassed 4000 as they were doubled every time he refused to do them-- he never did. As to picking up litter I thought schools tried to encourage pupils not to drop it. Detention? -You have to inform parents and the more "enlightened" refuse to turn up. Expulsion? Frowned upon and punished by Ofsted-schools should not let kids get into that position. Few schools now expel as it costs a loss of approx.£3,500. Some may hanker after Corporal Punishment (my preferred option to detention when I was a pupil) as "It never did me any harm" (twitch, twitch) but would result today in the sack and a court appearance. As I have written many times some of you ought to spend a few days in school and you will soon see the problems teachers face and the few sanctions they have. But who am I to comment? I have only spent 40 years teaching and another 10 as a Governor of 4 schools. The only reason why Gove is right is that it panders to the anti Labour commentators and right wing press. I bow to Sankey's superior knowledge. Bill Bradbury
  • Score: 4

6:25pm Mon 3 Feb 14

barrie timpson says...

Isn't it better that he is clearing up what punishments can and can't be used then?
Isn't it better that he is clearing up what punishments can and can't be used then? barrie timpson
  • Score: 1

8:34am Tue 4 Feb 14

And Justice For All says...

Seems to me that this is a spot the obvious exercise. For too long now teachers have not had the confidence/backing to be strong with the badly behaved brats that are ruining education for everyone else. When I was at school I had no doubt that I'd be picked up on, and punished for, bad behaviour hence why 99% I behaved myself through fear of the consequences. This wasnt too long ago either. Maybe it helps that I had discpline at home too which is where a lot of these issues are arising in todays kids.
I say let the teachers have the power and the backing of the state to kick these kids arses when they need to be. Parents dont like it? Tough, teach your kid some manners and good behaviour.
As for high suicide rates? Comments like that sum up whats gone wrong with this world. Too many bleeding hearts. Get real,
Seems to me that this is a spot the obvious exercise. For too long now teachers have not had the confidence/backing to be strong with the badly behaved brats that are ruining education for everyone else. When I was at school I had no doubt that I'd be picked up on, and punished for, bad behaviour hence why 99% I behaved myself through fear of the consequences. This wasnt too long ago either. Maybe it helps that I had discpline at home too which is where a lot of these issues are arising in todays kids. I say let the teachers have the power and the backing of the state to kick these kids arses when they need to be. Parents dont like it? Tough, teach your kid some manners and good behaviour. As for high suicide rates? Comments like that sum up whats gone wrong with this world. Too many bleeding hearts. Get real, And Justice For All
  • Score: 9

8:51am Tue 4 Feb 14

And Justice For All says...

Hmmm, comment removed. I wonder why!
Hmmm, comment removed. I wonder why! And Justice For All
  • Score: 1

9:13am Tue 4 Feb 14

Bill Bradbury says...

Justice for all I agree but I wish it were so simple. I have witnessed lessons trashed by a minority preventing the rest to learn. Any sanctions are likely to attract the ire of some parents who "bounce" into school with threatening bevaiour. I witnessed this many times. I taught some of these!

In one school (not in St.Helens) whilst riding "shotgun" to a 14 year old who had been excluded from many schools,(he was the "Hmwk never done and never will" what sancytion at that defiance??) I felt like saying to 4 boys, one who I was certain was high on something, "There,s the door, there is the gate just go and carry on walking and don't come back" They had no intention of learning anything. I felt sorry for that young teacher.

I just cannot undersatnd the right wing press and others paying lip service to Gove when Education at private fee-paying schools are worlds apart from the State sector especially on funding and the clientele/parents they attract. Nice small classes of well behaved motivated pupils with the ultimate sanction of "Head of School" (the High Master!) asking them to be taken away-just like that no appeals and no different from me thinking about those 4 boys being pushed out of the school gate never to return. Unfortunately state schools can't do that and they just have to cope,- which most do.
Justice for all I agree but I wish it were so simple. I have witnessed lessons trashed by a minority preventing the rest to learn. Any sanctions are likely to attract the ire of some parents who "bounce" into school with threatening bevaiour. I witnessed this many times. I taught some of these! In one school (not in St.Helens) whilst riding "shotgun" to a 14 year old who had been excluded from many schools,(he was the "Hmwk never done and never will" what sancytion at that defiance??) I felt like saying to 4 boys, one who I was certain was high on something, "There,s the door, there is the gate just go and carry on walking and don't come back" They had no intention of learning anything. I felt sorry for that young teacher. I just cannot undersatnd the right wing press and others paying lip service to Gove when Education at private fee-paying schools are worlds apart from the State sector especially on funding and the clientele/parents they attract. Nice small classes of well behaved motivated pupils with the ultimate sanction of "Head of School" (the High Master!) asking them to be taken away-just like that no appeals and no different from me thinking about those 4 boys being pushed out of the school gate never to return. Unfortunately state schools can't do that and they just have to cope,- which most do. Bill Bradbury
  • Score: -1

9:46am Tue 4 Feb 14

barrie timpson says...

Interesting article from 2005 in the lefty "bible"

http://www.theguardi
an.com/education/200
5/feb/01/schools.uk3
Interesting article from 2005 in the lefty "bible" http://www.theguardi an.com/education/200 5/feb/01/schools.uk3 barrie timpson
  • Score: -1

11:02am Tue 4 Feb 14

Sankey says...

Gove wants state education to have similar standards to public education. And our 40 year education expert thinks that's a bad thing. God help us.

Reading today how labour invented so called a political quangos but stuffed them with labour placemen to circumvent accountability and the democratic process.

The education establishment is a classic and they are squealing very loud at the moment.

Let them !

Our education system has been hyjacked for too many decades by these self serving charlatans
Gove wants state education to have similar standards to public education. And our 40 year education expert thinks that's a bad thing. God help us. Reading today how labour invented so called a political quangos but stuffed them with labour placemen to circumvent accountability and the democratic process. The education establishment is a classic and they are squealing very loud at the moment. Let them ! Our education system has been hyjacked for too many decades by these self serving charlatans Sankey
  • Score: 3

11:30am Tue 4 Feb 14

Bill Bradbury says...

Sankey "education hijacked--by these self serving charletans" you are obviously referring to the politicians?
PS don't suggest I wrote something which I did't that "our self service 40 year expert thinks its a bad thing" now where did I say that. I always know when you are losing the argument when you start to invent things that I may have said.
Sankey "education hijacked--by these self serving charletans" you are obviously referring to the politicians? PS don't suggest I wrote something which I did't that "our self service 40 year expert thinks its a bad thing" now where did I say that. I always know when you are losing the argument when you start to invent things that I may have said. Bill Bradbury
  • Score: 3

12:07pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Sankey says...

Bill Bradbury wrote:
Sankey "education hijacked--by these self serving charletans" you are obviously referring to the politicians?
PS don't suggest I wrote something which I did't that "our self service 40 year expert thinks its a bad thing" now where did I say that. I always know when you are losing the argument when you start to invent things that I may have said.
Post above mr silly of education thinks state schools are run on Eton lines

Clear inference that mr silly is a bad man for wanting state schools to have similar standards to public

How terrible ! In any other circumstance that would be your stance and the rest of the lefties but because its gove you react against. And why ?
.
Because you are your ilk in the powerful teaching unions are against change and improvements as it breaks up the Cosey cartel you and others have enjoyed (and profited from) for years.
[quote][p][bold]Bill Bradbury[/bold] wrote: Sankey "education hijacked--by these self serving charletans" you are obviously referring to the politicians? PS don't suggest I wrote something which I did't that "our self service 40 year expert thinks its a bad thing" now where did I say that. I always know when you are losing the argument when you start to invent things that I may have said.[/p][/quote]Post above mr silly of education thinks state schools are run on Eton lines Clear inference that mr silly is a bad man for wanting state schools to have similar standards to public How terrible ! In any other circumstance that would be your stance and the rest of the lefties but because its gove you react against. And why ? . Because you are your ilk in the powerful teaching unions are against change and improvements as it breaks up the Cosey cartel you and others have enjoyed (and profited from) for years. Sankey
  • Score: 1

12:10pm Tue 4 Feb 14

peterxu says...

A standard meaningless word from Tories.There is SO much research showing that stick is not working. Passion must come from within and replacing it with external motivation is ineffective in the long run.
These students needs more support.
And we can succeed together.
A standard meaningless word from Tories.There is SO much research showing that stick is not working. Passion must come from within and replacing it with external motivation is ineffective in the long run. These students needs more support. And we can succeed together. peterxu
  • Score: -3

12:11pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Sankey says...

When you look at the people who hate gove you know he is the right man for the job.
When you look at the people who hate gove you know he is the right man for the job. Sankey
  • Score: 2

12:54pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Sankey says...

peterxu wrote:
A standard meaningless word from Tories.There is SO much research showing that stick is not working. Passion must come from within and replacing it with external motivation is ineffective in the long run.
These students needs more support.
And we can succeed together.
I agree passion comes from within but kids needs boundaries especially in formative years. Facilitating passion is not about letting people do what they want but giving them a structure.

Nor is it allowing the few in a classroom to disrupt the rest of the kids who want to learn.

Trendy lefty progressive methods were a failure and have consigned at least two generations to the education scrap heap. Time for a change in fact long overdue
[quote][p][bold]peterxu[/bold] wrote: A standard meaningless word from Tories.There is SO much research showing that stick is not working. Passion must come from within and replacing it with external motivation is ineffective in the long run. These students needs more support. And we can succeed together.[/p][/quote]I agree passion comes from within but kids needs boundaries especially in formative years. Facilitating passion is not about letting people do what they want but giving them a structure. Nor is it allowing the few in a classroom to disrupt the rest of the kids who want to learn. Trendy lefty progressive methods were a failure and have consigned at least two generations to the education scrap heap. Time for a change in fact long overdue Sankey
  • Score: 1

1:27pm Tue 4 Feb 14

barrie timpson says...

I agree with Peter somewhat , that you can't go in all guns blazing , but you do have to have a variety of methods as not one will always work. If any at all.
I've told before how I worked for KMBC , we were paid 25 pound an hour to work with teens "to naughty" to go to school.
Having been expelled funding was given to us to take them on day trips - Alton towers , mountain biking , exclusive use of gyms - literally thousands maybe more was thrown at the scheme.
Despite our best efforts , out of a group of about 15-20 youths , the majority of them ended up in the jug for drugs and firearm offences.
What a waste of money. The taxpayers money that Labour had no problem throwing about.
I agree with Peter somewhat , that you can't go in all guns blazing , but you do have to have a variety of methods as not one will always work. If any at all. I've told before how I worked for KMBC , we were paid 25 pound an hour to work with teens "to naughty" to go to school. Having been expelled funding was given to us to take them on day trips - Alton towers , mountain biking , exclusive use of gyms - literally thousands maybe more was thrown at the scheme. Despite our best efforts , out of a group of about 15-20 youths , the majority of them ended up in the jug for drugs and firearm offences. What a waste of money. The taxpayers money that Labour had no problem throwing about. barrie timpson
  • Score: 3

2:20pm Tue 4 Feb 14

And Justice For All says...

A sorry state of affairs that Barry but not suprising, which is the biggest shame of all. We are no longer sensitive to the wasteful exercises in rewarding bad behaviour. Some kids are beyond help because by the time they get to school, the feral behaviour is already entrenched in them. As hard as the school and its' staff try, the positives arent reinforced at home which makes the graft of the school redundant.
A sorry state of affairs that Barry but not suprising, which is the biggest shame of all. We are no longer sensitive to the wasteful exercises in rewarding bad behaviour. Some kids are beyond help because by the time they get to school, the feral behaviour is already entrenched in them. As hard as the school and its' staff try, the positives arent reinforced at home which makes the graft of the school redundant. And Justice For All
  • Score: 4

3:09pm Tue 4 Feb 14

jimstevo says...

So Michael Gove wants every school in this Country to have the same standards as 'Fee Paying Schools'! Wouldn't that be great!

Peter Wilby in today's Guardian makes some great points:-
"It is sometimes hard to know whether to take Michael Gove seriously. In a speech in London on Monday, the education secretary said he was aiming to achieve a situation where, if you visit a school in England, "standards are so high all round that you should not be able to tell whether it's in the state sector or a fee-paying independent".

So as parents visited, say, Marlborough College (founded 1843), they would ignore the demand for £27,420 for a year's teaching and nearly another £5,000 for boarding. They would breeze into classrooms and wouldn't notice that, for 870 pupils, Marlborough has more than 150 teachers and assistants, a ratio that, if applied to all England's 8.2 million schoolchildren, would require the teaching workforce to be tripled to roughly 1.3 million. Then they would wander the grounds and somehow fail to clock 11 rugby pitches, eight cricket squares, 14 cricket nets, 12 tennis courts, an eight-lane swimming pool and .22 rifle range, a variety of facilities which, if extended to every state school, would require (according to one calculation) 33m acres, or more than half the English countryside."
So Michael Gove wants every school in this Country to have the same standards as 'Fee Paying Schools'! Wouldn't that be great! Peter Wilby in today's Guardian makes some great points:- "It is sometimes hard to know whether to take Michael Gove seriously. In a speech in London on Monday, the education secretary said he was aiming to achieve a situation where, if you visit a school in England, "standards are so high all round that you should not be able to tell whether it's in the state sector or a fee-paying independent". So as parents visited, say, Marlborough College (founded 1843), they would ignore the demand for £27,420 for a year's teaching and nearly another £5,000 for boarding. They would breeze into classrooms and wouldn't notice that, for 870 pupils, Marlborough has more than 150 teachers and assistants, a ratio that, if applied to all England's 8.2 million schoolchildren, would require the teaching workforce to be tripled to roughly 1.3 million. Then they would wander the grounds and somehow fail to clock 11 rugby pitches, eight cricket squares, 14 cricket nets, 12 tennis courts, an eight-lane swimming pool and .22 rifle range, a variety of facilities which, if extended to every state school, would require (according to one calculation) 33m acres, or more than half the English countryside." jimstevo
  • Score: 0

3:14pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Bill Bradbury says...

And Justice For All wrote:
A sorry state of affairs that Barry but not suprising, which is the biggest shame of all. We are no longer sensitive to the wasteful exercises in rewarding bad behaviour. Some kids are beyond help because by the time they get to school, the feral behaviour is already entrenched in them. As hard as the school and its' staff try, the positives arent reinforced at home which makes the graft of the school redundant.
An excellent comment and the real problem that schools face.

Sankey continually either is being perverse or is out of his depth. So all schools to be like Independent and fee paying who are highly selective in both pupils and parents (ability to pay)
We are not comparing like with like. Every teacher in the land would like the settled regime of small classe with well motivated pupils but unfortunately, despite what Gove's "wish list" suggests, highly improbable. I would like every home in the country to have well meaning, well educated and caring parents and most problems will go, away. We are now dealing with 3rd. generation of some pupils whose parents have never had parenting skills and have little interest in Education or what their children get up to or how to behave. Schools rules are not home rules and teachers and schools have to become social workers as well as educators.
I just get tired of Sankey's anti Labour, anti union, anti teacher, anti public sector worker but probabbly he has never been exploited by an employer.
Before the last election I did say to him that I can't wait for his Tory Government who will put everything right. Not had much success have they but at least he can continue for the next few decades of blaming the Brown Government. It saves thinking about real issues and how to address them.
[quote][p][bold]And Justice For All[/bold] wrote: A sorry state of affairs that Barry but not suprising, which is the biggest shame of all. We are no longer sensitive to the wasteful exercises in rewarding bad behaviour. Some kids are beyond help because by the time they get to school, the feral behaviour is already entrenched in them. As hard as the school and its' staff try, the positives arent reinforced at home which makes the graft of the school redundant.[/p][/quote]An excellent comment and the real problem that schools face. Sankey continually either is being perverse or is out of his depth. So all schools to be like Independent and fee paying who are highly selective in both pupils and parents (ability to pay) We are not comparing like with like. Every teacher in the land would like the settled regime of small classe with well motivated pupils but unfortunately, despite what Gove's "wish list" suggests, highly improbable. I would like every home in the country to have well meaning, well educated and caring parents and most problems will go, away. We are now dealing with 3rd. generation of some pupils whose parents have never had parenting skills and have little interest in Education or what their children get up to or how to behave. Schools rules are not home rules and teachers and schools have to become social workers as well as educators. I just get tired of Sankey's anti Labour, anti union, anti teacher, anti public sector worker but probabbly he has never been exploited by an employer. Before the last election I did say to him that I can't wait for his Tory Government who will put everything right. Not had much success have they but at least he can continue for the next few decades of blaming the Brown Government. It saves thinking about real issues and how to address them. Bill Bradbury
  • Score: 0

3:40pm Tue 4 Feb 14

jimstevo says...

Sankey wrote:
When you look at the people who hate gove you know he is the right man for the job.
When you look at the people (Sankey etc) who hate the Public Sector and Trade Unions,you know they must be doing a good job! Such a pity he does not live in a nice Tory Shire County!
[quote][p][bold]Sankey[/bold] wrote: When you look at the people who hate gove you know he is the right man for the job.[/p][/quote]When you look at the people (Sankey etc) who hate the Public Sector and Trade Unions,you know they must be doing a good job! Such a pity he does not live in a nice Tory Shire County! jimstevo
  • Score: -1

3:50pm Tue 4 Feb 14

jimstevo says...

Also 6th Form Colleges are getting £100 Million cut from their budgets by Michael Gove's Dept,making them drop courses such as Maths and Languages.
Yet nine 'Free' 6th Form Colleges have been given £62 Million ,even though they only serve 1500 pupils the same as one 'normal' State Sector 6th Form College!
This works out at £59,000 per pupil at the 'Free' College,compared to £4,900 per pupil at the State Sector College!
Another 'Loopy' proposal from the Education Dept today, to let kids start going to school at the age of 2!!
Also 6th Form Colleges are getting £100 Million cut from their budgets by Michael Gove's Dept,making them drop courses such as Maths and Languages. Yet nine 'Free' 6th Form Colleges have been given £62 Million ,even though they only serve 1500 pupils the same as one 'normal' State Sector 6th Form College! This works out at £59,000 per pupil at the 'Free' College,compared to £4,900 per pupil at the State Sector College! Another 'Loopy' proposal from the Education Dept today, to let kids start going to school at the age of 2!! jimstevo
  • Score: -1

4:09pm Tue 4 Feb 14

barrie timpson says...

The Guardian. Polly Toynbee. Hates private education - privately educates her children. Excellent.

Nobody does hypocrisy like The Guardian.
The Guardian. Polly Toynbee. Hates private education - privately educates her children. Excellent. Nobody does hypocrisy like The Guardian. barrie timpson
  • Score: 0

4:14pm Tue 4 Feb 14

barrie timpson says...

and Jim it's nursery places at at schools not actual school.

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/education-2603
1574
and Jim it's nursery places at at schools not actual school. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/education-2603 1574 barrie timpson
  • Score: 0

5:07pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Sankey says...

Gove is not saying state schools would be exactly the same as Eton the guardian is being disingenuous. They are like lefty establishment has a vested interest in state education being poor. It protects their clients the teaching industry and the like,

All as gove is saying is to close the gap.

And this is a bad thing how exactly ?
Gove is not saying state schools would be exactly the same as Eton the guardian is being disingenuous. They are like lefty establishment has a vested interest in state education being poor. It protects their clients the teaching industry and the like, All as gove is saying is to close the gap. And this is a bad thing how exactly ? Sankey
  • Score: 0

5:10pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Sankey says...

And as for the Tory jibes that's so insulting to labour people

Are you saying labour voters don't want their children to get a good education ?

What madness is that sacrificing your kids education for the sake of left wing self interests
And as for the Tory jibes that's so insulting to labour people Are you saying labour voters don't want their children to get a good education ? What madness is that sacrificing your kids education for the sake of left wing self interests Sankey
  • Score: 0

5:30pm Tue 4 Feb 14

barrie timpson says...

I'm all for paying for a better service.
I find the amount of left wing hypocrisy staggering to be honest.
I'm all for paying for a better service. I find the amount of left wing hypocrisy staggering to be honest. barrie timpson
  • Score: 0

5:31pm Tue 4 Feb 14

barrie timpson says...

Dianne Abbott - she's another corker - reviles private education , then privately educates her own children.
Dianne Abbott - she's another corker - reviles private education , then privately educates her own children. barrie timpson
  • Score: 3

5:38pm Tue 4 Feb 14

barrie timpson says...

I also find it astounding that high salaries in the private sector are frowned upon , yet the very mention of cutting back on bloated public sector salaries causes outcry.
I also find it astounding that high salaries in the private sector are frowned upon , yet the very mention of cutting back on bloated public sector salaries causes outcry. barrie timpson
  • Score: 0

6:12pm Tue 4 Feb 14

peterxu says...

I have an overwhelming sense of frustration. I have a reception child, aged four, who desperately needs some serious, long-term therapy. In school she is unmanageable. She bites, kicks, hits and runs. She has serious attachment and speech and language needs. This results in an inability to form appropriate relationships with either adults or her peers. She will plough through a group of children to get something she wants, unaware that she is hurting them as she does so. Though she is quite bright, she has limited understanding of what is said to her and we have to think carefully how we put things. We try to use visual resources to help her to understand.

She is looked after by her aunt and uncle, as her parents were unable to cope. At home, her carers are doing their best in almost impossible circumstances, trying to cope with this lovely but very challenging little girl. We are attempting to do the same by trying to keep her in school so that there is a sense of routine for her, familiar people, regularity. And it gives her aunt and uncle a break. We provide for her as best we can, with one-to-one support and as much help for her carers as we can possibly manage. And we'll carry on fighting for help from other agencies, too, for the sake of this child.

My frustration is with the amount of time it takes for referrals to health professionals to go through, whether it's mental health services or paediatricians, and the apparent lack of interest from social services. They constantly bounce referrals back to the school to manage.

It feels awful not being able to provide this little girl's family with the support they really need now – not in six weeks, or six months, or next year.

I've seen many children failed by this system, which is now dysfunctional. They are too traumatised for support; they are not traumatised enough for support. They are "looked after" by family, so aren't eligible for support. In some cases, the family won't accept the support that is offered, usually because they are too scared.

Yet we must support these children and their families in school, and we do. Because if we didn't, the children would have no one fighting their corner, would not have opportunities for a different future. My primary school is set in an area of high deprivation, where many of the adults are illiterate, innumerate and have no aspiration for their children, and where there are generations who have not had a job.

Schools like mine are no longer simply educational establishments. We are health centres, social care hubs, social security and housing advisers, counselling services, parenting practitioners and adult learning facilitators. We also teach children. We provide these services because if we didn't, the children and families would have no hope of breaking out of the cycle of deprivation they find themselves in.

By supporting the children and families emotionally, we enable the children to access learning. We ensure that exclusions are kept to an absolute minimum. We are able, very slowly, to help some of the children to manage the school day without exploding.

I have recently reintegrated a year 4 child whose behaviour was so extreme I seriously considered a permanent exclusion following a long string of serious incidents. The last time I saw him, he was tearing around the school delivering torrents of abuse. He was not responding to anyone – not even his mother, whom he was subjecting to the same stream of foul language.

He seemed to be stuck in a tornado of rage and fury that swept him along, trying to destroy everything in his path: pens, pencils, people. I felt helpless, and it seemed at the time that there was no option other than to exclude him for a fixed term, which I did. I made alternative provision for him so that he would not miss out on any learning.

It didn't work. His behaviour deteriorated there, and when he was back I excluded him again. It felt hopeless. His family circumstances were not helpful and, despite his mum's best efforts to be supportive, she simply didn't know what to do, and neither did I. So I took some thinking time. I was determined not to give up on him, to find a way to get him back on track. We have given him another chance. And he's taking it
I have an overwhelming sense of frustration. I have a reception child, aged four, who desperately needs some serious, long-term therapy. In school she is unmanageable. She bites, kicks, hits and runs. She has serious attachment and speech and language needs. This results in an inability to form appropriate relationships with either adults or her peers. She will plough through a group of children to get something she wants, unaware that she is hurting them as she does so. Though she is quite bright, she has limited understanding of what is said to her and we have to think carefully how we put things. We try to use visual resources to help her to understand. She is looked after by her aunt and uncle, as her parents were unable to cope. At home, her carers are doing their best in almost impossible circumstances, trying to cope with this lovely but very challenging little girl. We are attempting to do the same by trying to keep her in school so that there is a sense of routine for her, familiar people, regularity. And it gives her aunt and uncle a break. We provide for her as best we can, with one-to-one support and as much help for her carers as we can possibly manage. And we'll carry on fighting for help from other agencies, too, for the sake of this child. My frustration is with the amount of time it takes for referrals to health professionals to go through, whether it's mental health services or paediatricians, and the apparent lack of interest from social services. They constantly bounce referrals back to the school to manage. It feels awful not being able to provide this little girl's family with the support they really need now – not in six weeks, or six months, or next year. I've seen many children failed by this system, which is now dysfunctional. They are too traumatised for support; they are not traumatised enough for support. They are "looked after" by family, so aren't eligible for support. In some cases, the family won't accept the support that is offered, usually because they are too scared. Yet we must support these children and their families in school, and we do. Because if we didn't, the children would have no one fighting their corner, would not have opportunities for a different future. My primary school is set in an area of high deprivation, where many of the adults are illiterate, innumerate and have no aspiration for their children, and where there are generations who have not had a job. Schools like mine are no longer simply educational establishments. We are health centres, social care hubs, social security and housing advisers, counselling services, parenting practitioners and adult learning facilitators. We also teach children. We provide these services because if we didn't, the children and families would have no hope of breaking out of the cycle of deprivation they find themselves in. By supporting the children and families emotionally, we enable the children to access learning. We ensure that exclusions are kept to an absolute minimum. We are able, very slowly, to help some of the children to manage the school day without exploding. I have recently reintegrated a year 4 child whose behaviour was so extreme I seriously considered a permanent exclusion following a long string of serious incidents. The last time I saw him, he was tearing around the school delivering torrents of abuse. He was not responding to anyone – not even his mother, whom he was subjecting to the same stream of foul language. He seemed to be stuck in a tornado of rage and fury that swept him along, trying to destroy everything in his path: pens, pencils, people. I felt helpless, and it seemed at the time that there was no option other than to exclude him for a fixed term, which I did. I made alternative provision for him so that he would not miss out on any learning. It didn't work. His behaviour deteriorated there, and when he was back I excluded him again. It felt hopeless. His family circumstances were not helpful and, despite his mum's best efforts to be supportive, she simply didn't know what to do, and neither did I. So I took some thinking time. I was determined not to give up on him, to find a way to get him back on track. We have given him another chance. And he's taking it peterxu
  • Score: 5

6:14pm Tue 4 Feb 14

peterxu says...

We can't exclude any child … because sometimes school is really all they have
A primary headteacher in a deprived area writes about the troubled lives of her pupils
http://www.theguardi
an.com/education/201
3/may/27/headteacher
-on-a-knife-edge
We can't exclude any child … because sometimes school is really all they have A primary headteacher in a deprived area writes about the troubled lives of her pupils http://www.theguardi an.com/education/201 3/may/27/headteacher -on-a-knife-edge peterxu
  • Score: 2

6:26pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Sankey says...

We can't comment on your personal circumstances Peter or the child
However having a good state education system generally has to be a good thing and its great Michael gove is striving for that but the self serving left wing education establishment will fight him (and us) every step of the way
We can't comment on your personal circumstances Peter or the child However having a good state education system generally has to be a good thing and its great Michael gove is striving for that but the self serving left wing education establishment will fight him (and us) every step of the way Sankey
  • Score: -1

7:14pm Tue 4 Feb 14

barrie timpson says...

Peter I find your comment admirable and you are clearly a decent man. As I said in a previous comment , I agree that not all cases are solved with an all guns blazing approach.
The initial point I make is that I think it's good that discipline is in school and it's good that it's going to become clearer as to what steps can be taken.
Will it work? Nobody will no without trying , and as you can also see from my previous comments I have experience that all the money and help you can give can sometimes be to no avail.
Peter I find your comment admirable and you are clearly a decent man. As I said in a previous comment , I agree that not all cases are solved with an all guns blazing approach. The initial point I make is that I think it's good that discipline is in school and it's good that it's going to become clearer as to what steps can be taken. Will it work? Nobody will no without trying , and as you can also see from my previous comments I have experience that all the money and help you can give can sometimes be to no avail. barrie timpson
  • Score: 0

7:24pm Tue 4 Feb 14

barrie timpson says...

Nobody will "know" rather - maybe I need to go back to school??
Nobody will "know" rather - maybe I need to go back to school?? barrie timpson
  • Score: -1

9:08am Wed 5 Feb 14

jumperr says...

the problems that are portrayed about the little girl shows the system is so wrong nobody is gaining in any way to be educated if the time is taken up for one who needs more help than what is in a school, others lose out, just hope some proper idea comes up.
the problems that are portrayed about the little girl shows the system is so wrong nobody is gaining in any way to be educated if the time is taken up for one who needs more help than what is in a school, others lose out, just hope some proper idea comes up. jumperr
  • Score: 1

3:34pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Bill Bradbury says...

jimstevo wrote:
Also 6th Form Colleges are getting £100 Million cut from their budgets by Michael Gove's Dept,making them drop courses such as Maths and Languages. Yet nine 'Free' 6th Form Colleges have been given £62 Million ,even though they only serve 1500 pupils the same as one 'normal' State Sector 6th Form College! This works out at £59,000 per pupil at the 'Free' College,compared to £4,900 per pupil at the State Sector College! Another 'Loopy' proposal from the Education Dept today, to let kids start going to school at the age of 2!!
And I was informed a College can put on an Advanced course with only 2 students whereas a 6th.Form has to have at least 7!
[quote][p][bold]jimstevo[/bold] wrote: Also 6th Form Colleges are getting £100 Million cut from their budgets by Michael Gove's Dept,making them drop courses such as Maths and Languages. Yet nine 'Free' 6th Form Colleges have been given £62 Million ,even though they only serve 1500 pupils the same as one 'normal' State Sector 6th Form College! This works out at £59,000 per pupil at the 'Free' College,compared to £4,900 per pupil at the State Sector College! Another 'Loopy' proposal from the Education Dept today, to let kids start going to school at the age of 2!![/p][/quote]And I was informed a College can put on an Advanced course with only 2 students whereas a 6th.Form has to have at least 7! Bill Bradbury
  • Score: 2

3:51pm Wed 5 Feb 14

Bill Bradbury says...

Sankey's comments can be summed up very briefly. Anti Labour; anti union; anti public sector and anti teachers but anything coming out of a Tory mouth and the right wing press is the path to the promised land and the truth..

To those families who are seeing no appreciable benefit (apart from those paying high taxes), this is what they promised at the last election.
Running up to the next election we will see vast improvements and give aways then when returned to power then we will see the real Tory Government . They will continue making excuses blaming Labour for all their mistakes. It takes a West Country disaster to realise the issue will be lost votes. Hence now quite rightly money will suddenly appear.

At least the washed away SW railway line will please the anti HS2 brigade who say money should be spent on the existing system. God must live in the Chiltern area. I won't see it in my lifetime.
Sankey's comments can be summed up very briefly. Anti Labour; anti union; anti public sector and anti teachers but anything coming out of a Tory mouth and the right wing press is the path to the promised land and the truth.. To those families who are seeing no appreciable benefit (apart from those paying high taxes), this is what they promised at the last election. Running up to the next election we will see vast improvements and give aways then when returned to power then we will see the real Tory Government . They will continue making excuses blaming Labour for all their mistakes. It takes a West Country disaster to realise the issue will be lost votes. Hence now quite rightly money will suddenly appear. At least the washed away SW railway line will please the anti HS2 brigade who say money should be spent on the existing system. God must live in the Chiltern area. I won't see it in my lifetime. Bill Bradbury
  • Score: 0

5:26am Thu 6 Feb 14

cap-end says...

frankly wrote:
bring back national service, and take them away from their mummies, even the girls.. let them learn respect like here in Switzerland.
That's just what the forces need , all the dross of society
[quote][p][bold]frankly[/bold] wrote: bring back national service, and take them away from their mummies, even the girls.. let them learn respect like here in Switzerland.[/p][/quote]That's just what the forces need , all the dross of society cap-end
  • Score: -1

3:31pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Sankey says...

Bill Bradbury wrote:
jimstevo wrote:
Also 6th Form Colleges are getting £100 Million cut from their budgets by Michael Gove's Dept,making them drop courses such as Maths and Languages. Yet nine 'Free' 6th Form Colleges have been given £62 Million ,even though they only serve 1500 pupils the same as one 'normal' State Sector 6th Form College! This works out at £59,000 per pupil at the 'Free' College,compared to £4,900 per pupil at the State Sector College! Another 'Loopy' proposal from the Education Dept today, to let kids start going to school at the age of 2!!
And I was informed a College can put on an Advanced course with only 2 students whereas a 6th.Form has to have at least 7!
People just want a decent education for their kids bill

Its very simple

Why are you so resistant to that ?
[quote][p][bold]Bill Bradbury[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jimstevo[/bold] wrote: Also 6th Form Colleges are getting £100 Million cut from their budgets by Michael Gove's Dept,making them drop courses such as Maths and Languages. Yet nine 'Free' 6th Form Colleges have been given £62 Million ,even though they only serve 1500 pupils the same as one 'normal' State Sector 6th Form College! This works out at £59,000 per pupil at the 'Free' College,compared to £4,900 per pupil at the State Sector College! Another 'Loopy' proposal from the Education Dept today, to let kids start going to school at the age of 2!![/p][/quote]And I was informed a College can put on an Advanced course with only 2 students whereas a 6th.Form has to have at least 7![/p][/quote]People just want a decent education for their kids bill Its very simple Why are you so resistant to that ? Sankey
  • Score: -2

8:38pm Thu 6 Feb 14

barrie timpson says...

Because I fear , it's not Labour or the teachers making the changes. In the above link I provided from the Guardian , more or less the exact same changes were put forward by Labour. There was no outcry then.

I feel it's like this , if beheading was legal some would moan that the Tories were doing it , yet place their head on a block for Labour. And then blame the Tories.
Because I fear , it's not Labour or the teachers making the changes. In the above link I provided from the Guardian , more or less the exact same changes were put forward by Labour. There was no outcry then. I feel it's like this , if beheading was legal some would moan that the Tories were doing it , yet place their head on a block for Labour. And then blame the Tories. barrie timpson
  • Score: 0

6:14pm Sat 8 Feb 14

keepitreel says...

i remember my school days with affection (seny mod,cowley) were we had proper teachers who taught us proper lessons,when i left my junior school i could read and write and had a good grasp of maths,i had respect for my teachers and my elders because this was taught to me by my parents,i also remember getting the cane in front of the class for behaving badly in a class and disrupting the other children,only once i will add.Then towards my last years of school we got a few of the trendy tree hugging new breed who told us to call them by their first name and tried to be our mates,then they stopped the class system were the clever ones were taught at a different pace to the thickos,no more cane and we now have kids leaving school at 16 who cant read or write,cant string a sentence together without swearing and dont know the meaning of discipline,this is why we have the scum hanging about on street corners or staying in their pits till after lunch,being fat was no excuse for not doing p.e and if you forgot you kit you had to go to the lucky dip box,try that today and the parents would be screaming to the human writes brigade,forget all the new age rubbish,give the kids proper teachers who have an in-depth knowledge of what they are teaching and those that do not wish to learn kick them out,stop their parent tax credits and we will soon see them back BUT we must bring back punishment.
i remember my school days with affection (seny mod,cowley) were we had proper teachers who taught us proper lessons,when i left my junior school i could read and write and had a good grasp of maths,i had respect for my teachers and my elders because this was taught to me by my parents,i also remember getting the cane in front of the class for behaving badly in a class and disrupting the other children,only once i will add.Then towards my last years of school we got a few of the trendy tree hugging new breed who told us to call them by their first name and tried to be our mates,then they stopped the class system were the clever ones were taught at a different pace to the thickos,no more cane and we now have kids leaving school at 16 who cant read or write,cant string a sentence together without swearing and dont know the meaning of discipline,this is why we have the scum hanging about on street corners or staying in their pits till after lunch,being fat was no excuse for not doing p.e and if you forgot you kit you had to go to the lucky dip box,try that today and the parents would be screaming to the human writes brigade,forget all the new age rubbish,give the kids proper teachers who have an in-depth knowledge of what they are teaching and those that do not wish to learn kick them out,stop their parent tax credits and we will soon see them back BUT we must bring back punishment. keepitreel
  • Score: 0

11:00pm Sat 8 Feb 14

jumperr says...

What you are saying is we are being punished because punishments was stopped ,I got the stick on more than one occasion,hand and the what we sit on.just don't see why some of the things that go on now are put up with.
What you are saying is we are being punished because punishments was stopped ,I got the stick on more than one occasion,hand and the what we sit on.just don't see why some of the things that go on now are put up with. jumperr
  • Score: 0

11:03am Sun 9 Feb 14

Jen U Whine says...

Unless a current teacher then people should stay well away from commenting on something they think they know everything about but in reality know little...like Mr Gove for example!
Unless a current teacher then people should stay well away from commenting on something they think they know everything about but in reality know little...like Mr Gove for example! Jen U Whine
  • Score: 0

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