Ex-soldier in Union Jack dispute with St Helens Council says he is flying the flag as a tribute to fallen comrades

9:36am Thursday 14th March 2013 in News Exclusive By Stephen Mather, Senior reporter

Martin O’Neill Martin O’Neill

A FORMER soldier is battling over the right to fly the Union Jack in his garden as a tribute to fallen comrades.

Martin O’Neill, who has served with the 1st Battalion, Duke of Lancaster’s regiment in Iraq and Afghanistan, says he has no intention of taking his 10ft flagpole down, despite receiving a warning letter from the council, threatening legal action.

The 27-year-old salesman from Chestnut Grove, Laffak explained: “I put up the flag as a memorial to four mates I lost in Afghanistan. It’s my way of showing respect, but it seems some of my neighbours have complained to the council, who sent me a snotty letter saying I have to take it down.

"It says it’s not suitable for the area. They claim it’s in breach of planning control and any development should ‘respect the character’ of the local site.

“This is in my garden, in front of my house. If people had a problem I’d rather they come to me than go to the council.

“The latest council letter says I’ve failed to respond to their notice within seven days and they are going to pass the matter on to their solicitor.

“But if I do take it down, there will be no further action taken.”

A council spokesperson explained: “We are in talks with Mr O’Neill to resolve the issue.”

Comments(44)

Bill Bradbury says...
10:15am Thu 14 Mar 13

Keep the flag flying! It's part of the stupid planning regs. introduced by some "jobsworth" where as a Governor of a school we had to apply for planning permission to have a flag pole and then permission to fly a flag from it. Plain daft.

I suppose it's still OK to sing "We'll keep the Red Flag Flying here"? or perhaps Martin should try flying that?

I always find it sad that when I see the flag of St.George it is associated with the BNP rather than the flag of England. In the IOM it seems that every house has a flagpole with the "3 Legs of Mann" flying. I just wonder why the neighbours are so ashamed of the Flag of the UK.

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democracyisdead says...
11:03am Thu 14 Mar 13

Excellent post Bill , totally agree !

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Pineapple72 says...
11:22am Thu 14 Mar 13

Oh for gods sake - what is this town coming to ? Let the lad fly his flag with respects to his mates - bet hes seen things that only half of the lads in this town as seen on a Xbox - the worlds gone mad :-@

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icce says...
11:55am Thu 14 Mar 13

There is a house along the bypass that has had one in its front garden for ages, why would it not be suitable for the area? is his house not in england but the bypass is? This is ridiculous...

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MFMBreakfast says...
12:27pm Thu 14 Mar 13

This taken from Questions to the Deputy Prime Minister - source Hansard !

Planning (Flag Poles)

Bob Spink: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister (1) what planning restrictions apply to (a) the erection of flag poles and (b) the flying of national flags; and if he will make a statement;

(2) if he will make it his policy to issue planning guidance to remove the need for planning permission for flag poles up to 18 feet in height in or on domestic properties.

Keith Hill: Under the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations 1992 ("the regulations"), prior local planning authority consent is not required, in respect of a site where planning permission has been granted for residential development, so long as the flagstaff is vertical, does not exceed 4.6 metres in height, and is not within a conservation area, area of outstanding natural beauty, National Park, the Broads area or an area of special control under the regulations. The flag advertisement can only be displayed for the period of one year. Otherwise express consent from the local planning authority is required.

National flags are exempt from control under the regulations provided each flag is flown from a single vertical flagstaff and it does not have anything else added to the design of the flag or any advertising material added to the flagstaff. We shall be amending the Regulations to exempt from control national flags however they are flown from a flagstaff.

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Paul Lynch says...
1:39pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Hi all,

Could anyone with any information, or who knows anyone with any info on this story please contact me on cllrplynch@sthelens.
gov.uk?

Thanks very much

Paul

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Bill Bradbury says...
2:00pm Thu 14 Mar 13

There is a house on the Road between Billinge and Winstanley of a resident who puts a lot of hard work into the village, who has flown a variety of flags from his garden for as long as I can remember, the latest looks very much like the Royal Standard, but I may be wrong as I don't think "Maam" visits regularly?

An excellent posting FMFBreakfast so I hope the Council takes note. Game set and match to Stephen we think?

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democracyisdead says...
2:06pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Hi Paul , yes I have plenty of information , you represent Labour a party of which under the last government ensured that to be white and British was a crime. Your power hungry warmongering friends will only be happy when the white man is a tiny minority in this country. You represent a party which has no qualms whatsoever in approving an Islamic day centre in Sutton , at the same time as rejecting a dance school saying it would not enhance the area socially or economically. A major branch of the dictatorship that made most people feel ashamed or afraid to show any patriotism for fear of politically correct retribution. This man in said article is trying to show respect for fallen comrades in the illegal invasion that your party lied about to instigate ,breaking UN law , and killing millions of innocent civilians , but is being told by Queen Rimmer that he cannot fly his national flag. Because it might upset somebody. Hope this helps , hope to never see you and you lose your seat , regards L19.

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democracyisdead says...
2:16pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Also I see from your webpage that you represent Moss Bank but live in Rainhill , is there any chance of speaking to Rimmer about getting our Library an Apple mac seeing as out of the 100 purchased with tax that we contribute towards we didn't get one. Cheers.

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Jack60 says...
2:56pm Thu 14 Mar 13

It has to be the EU flag.

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PM says...
3:00pm Thu 14 Mar 13

icce wrote:
There is a house along the bypass that has had one in its front garden for ages, why would it not be suitable for the area? is his house not in england but the bypass is? This is ridiculous...
because I suspect no one has complained. This smacks of a neighbour dispute taken to a silly level

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PM says...
3:04pm Thu 14 Mar 13

democracyisdead wrote:
Hi Paul , yes I have plenty of information , you represent Labour a party of which under the last government ensured that to be white and British was a crime. Your power hungry warmongering friends will only be happy when the white man is a tiny minority in this country. You represent a party which has no qualms whatsoever in approving an Islamic day centre in Sutton , at the same time as rejecting a dance school saying it would not enhance the area socially or economically. A major branch of the dictatorship that made most people feel ashamed or afraid to show any patriotism for fear of politically correct retribution. This man in said article is trying to show respect for fallen comrades in the illegal invasion that your party lied about to instigate ,breaking UN law , and killing millions of innocent civilians , but is being told by Queen Rimmer that he cannot fly his national flag. Because it might upset somebody. Hope this helps , hope to never see you and you lose your seat , regards L19.
people with extreme opinions should be shot :) . You can't "not" approve a religious day centre anywhere if it does not breach planning regulations. Bigotry and racism are not grounds to turn down a development. And as a white British man I have yet to be convicted of being white or Brtish, could you point me to the laws that state you can no longer be white or British. The sad thing is stories like those highlighted above always drag in these crackpots with their own agenda.

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Served 24 years says...
3:38pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Every person who is proud of their country and wishes to fly their countries flag with no embelishment or advertising should be able to do as long as it is safe to do so and the flag is of a size in respect to the size of the flag pole. The flag should also not cause obstruction to neighbours. In america in terraced housing they even fly their flag from wall mounted brackets. Very patriotic and has common sense written all over it.
Mr. O'Niel keep your flag flying, maybe you can get more of your neighbours to remember this is their country and those who have fallen for it.

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democracyisdead says...
4:20pm Thu 14 Mar 13

PM wrote:
democracyisdead wrote:
Hi Paul , yes I have plenty of information , you represent Labour a party of which under the last government ensured that to be white and British was a crime. Your power hungry warmongering friends will only be happy when the white man is a tiny minority in this country. You represent a party which has no qualms whatsoever in approving an Islamic day centre in Sutton , at the same time as rejecting a dance school saying it would not enhance the area socially or economically. A major branch of the dictatorship that made most people feel ashamed or afraid to show any patriotism for fear of politically correct retribution. This man in said article is trying to show respect for fallen comrades in the illegal invasion that your party lied about to instigate ,breaking UN law , and killing millions of innocent civilians , but is being told by Queen Rimmer that he cannot fly his national flag. Because it might upset somebody. Hope this helps , hope to never see you and you lose your seat , regards L19.
people with extreme opinions should be shot :) . You can't "not" approve a religious day centre anywhere if it does not breach planning regulations. Bigotry and racism are not grounds to turn down a development. And as a white British man I have yet to be convicted of being white or Brtish, could you point me to the laws that state you can no longer be white or British. The sad thing is stories like those highlighted above always drag in these crackpots with their own agenda.
Wanting equality is a strange thing to call racist.
I have no problem with Islam - the world would not be as developed as it is if it were not for the house of knowledge.
What I am saying is that I don't see how an Islamic day centre can socially and economically improve the area any more than a dance centre that all all races, creeds and religions can go to.
By their own words the centre is not a mosque or a place of worship.
The punishment to be white British is enforced by self haters like yourself that are so far left you nearly come back around to the other side , when you jump on somebody for even suggesting that a wrong has been committed.
Are you in favour of the Iraq and Afghan wars? Do you condone the killing of innocent civilians by unmanned drones?

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Bangor says...
4:21pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Hi Martin

Like you my friend I am an ex soldier and on seeing this I got on to the Council.

You have broken no regulations and you are going to recieve a letter of appology in the next couple of days mate, and you are allowed too continue to fly the flag, good how we stick together my comrade at arms.

FAUGH A BALLAGH

Gerry

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Bangor says...
4:28pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Martin

Any problems mate email me on or if you wish to chat buddy on g332mcneilly@armymai
l.mod.uk

I help as a volunteer for serving and ex servicemens welfare.

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democracyisdead says...
4:34pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Seems to be some confusion here , apparently it is a Mosque along with a day centre , in the initial news it was denied that this was to be the case. I have no problem with this all faiths have my respect.

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i5tola says...
4:41pm Thu 14 Mar 13

In California we fly the flag when ever we like. I fly the US flag at the top of the pole and the UK flag just below it, according to the law of the land. It's not the reason I came to the US fifty years ago, but it one them.

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Peter Clayton says...
6:01pm Thu 14 Mar 13

So the council see fit to bully a British hero in his own home for flying the Union flag then why don't they go and tell their freinds on the traveller sites in Sutton and Parr to stop flying the Irish tricolour flag.

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Peter Clayton says...
6:12pm Thu 14 Mar 13

**friends**

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Bangor says...
7:29pm Thu 14 Mar 13

St Helens Council said to me today it was a mistake, and they will send him an apology in writing in he next few days.

Suffice to say, he has broken no rules and he can continue to fly his flag whenever he wants, and without anybody telling him any different.

I have been flying mine on a 20ft pole since 2005 and never once recieved a complaint, and I would dare the council to try the same with me.

22 years service I have earned the right, and I am proud to fly it.

It would be nice to see others doing it to support our troops, God bless everyone of them I am proud of them all.

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democracyisdead says...
7:30pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Peter Clayton wrote:
So the council see fit to bully a British hero in his own home for flying the Union flag then why don't they go and tell their freinds on the traveller sites in Sutton and Parr to stop flying the Irish tricolour flag.
You can't say , that PM will tell you that you are a Racist and a Bigot.

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Peter Clayton says...
10:23pm Thu 14 Mar 13

democracyisdead wrote:
Peter Clayton wrote:
So the council see fit to bully a British hero in his own home for flying the Union flag then why don't they go and tell their freinds on the traveller sites in Sutton and Parr to stop flying the Irish tricolour flag.
You can't say , that PM will tell you that you are a Racist and a Bigot.
Don't worry it wouldn't be the first time I've been called names like that, if PM wishes to take offence on behalf of another community then lets see if they would do the same for him.

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joecos says...
7:00am Fri 15 Mar 13

It would be interesting to hear from
Martins neighbors as to why they
object to the Union Jack being flown
outside of Martins home , does it go
deeper.

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WTONSkeptic says...
9:04am Fri 15 Mar 13

I wonder if they would have said anything if it was a gay pride flag, or a flag with a crescent moon on it. Im glad its sorted though.

Im an ex ozzie soldier, next week im putting up a pole with the union flag and the Ozzie flag, see if I get a letter..... :)

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Bill Bradbury says...
9:29am Fri 15 Mar 13

WTONSkeptic wrote:
I wonder if they would have said anything if it was a gay pride flag, or a flag with a crescent moon on it. Im glad its sorted though. Im an ex ozzie soldier, next week im putting up a pole with the union flag and the Ozzie flag, see if I get a letter..... :)
I too am glad it is sorted a story that should never had happened and I just wonder at the neighbours what their problem is. The Council needed this like a hole in the head.

As to the "racists" element it appears that one dare not comment without having the racist jibe thrown at them. I try to avoid racist sterotypes as the Moslem culture has as many facets as does the Christian culture, some extreme many not. I could regard Christian Fundamentalists/Evan
gelicals as extreme as they take the view if it is in the bible it is true with no argument. Anyone who has studied Theology and from where and how Christianity rose, there are many who would challenge the teachings, but I would not detract from anyone's faith or belief, misguided as they may be.

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democracyisdead says...
10:14am Fri 15 Mar 13

I did theology at A - level Bill. Islam was so instrumental in many of the things we have today , truly ahead of their time , but for some reason it stayed there and as many Muslims (not all hence the infighting) agree that it needs major reform.

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Bangor says...
1:08pm Fri 15 Mar 13

WTONSkeptic wrote:
I wonder if they would have said anything if it was a gay pride flag, or a flag with a crescent moon on it. Im glad its sorted though.

Im an ex ozzie soldier, next week im putting up a pole with the union flag and the Ozzie flag, see if I get a letter..... :)
You will its one flag 1 pole, you cannot have two flags on the same pole.

It is against the law.

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sthelenslass says...
2:17pm Fri 15 Mar 13

democracyisdead I fail to see why you start contrasting a planning decision about a Islamic centre with a flag pole baring a Union Jack without want to start a racist argument (surely there are thousands of other planning decisions you could use instead!). The Flagpole situation does seem to be built on a neighbourhood dispute as some have commented, it was his neighbours that reported it to the Council. It seems daft that this has fallen foul of planning regulations, its a shame planning regs seem to be so rigid and have no room for some common sense. May be the proposed Localism in planning will sort some of these issues??

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Peter Clayton says...
2:31pm Fri 15 Mar 13

sthelenslass wrote:
democracyisdead I fail to see why you start contrasting a planning decision about a Islamic centre with a flag pole baring a Union Jack without want to start a racist argument (surely there are thousands of other planning decisions you could use instead!). The Flagpole situation does seem to be built on a neighbourhood dispute as some have commented, it was his neighbours that reported it to the Council. It seems daft that this has fallen foul of planning regulations, its a shame planning regs seem to be so rigid and have no room for some common sense. May be the proposed Localism in planning will sort some of these issues??
Where did democracyisdead mention race ?

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freeglas2000@yahoo.com.au says...
4:11pm Fri 15 Mar 13

the union flag is our national flag and anyone who objects to it flying is guilty of treason , this st helens council is a treasonable council.

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SaintBoots says...
6:25pm Fri 15 Mar 13

Democracyisdead - totally agree with your comments, absolutely spot on. The other question we should be asking is why is a Labour councillor logging on to a newspaper website to ask for information on a matter which his council are currently involved in making a decision on? Beyond belief... but just goes to show the ineptitude of the current personnel we have at the helm of our council, despite what Queen Rimmer would have us believe.

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bgreenall says...
8:05pm Fri 15 Mar 13

A little bunch of islands in the South Atlantic come to mind all flying the flag, I wonder how they would feel if the knew what was going on in mother England.
Maybe the council is getting behind the new papa and we could soon see the Argentine flag on the town hall.

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bgreenall says...
8:23pm Fri 15 Mar 13

Good job Labour man Tony Blair is not in power or his mate Gordy they would have flogged them cheap split it with the Vatican and lived happy ever after.
Rest in peace St Helens soldiers past and present.

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Bill Bradbury says...
7:31am Sat 16 Mar 13

bgreenall wrote:
Good job Labour man Tony Blair is not in power or his mate Gordy they would have flogged them cheap split it with the Vatican and lived happy ever after. Rest in peace St Helens soldiers past and present.
Sorry you are not to re-write history but my recollection of the time was that the Tories were about to negotiate them away or at least lose interest and if it hadn't been for the stupid Argies to invade a listening post in South Georgia, we were in a hair's breadth of giving them away.
As to the Pope's involvement time will tell if they haven't already burnt any evidence of collusion with Galtieri. Perhaps the Falklands will become part of the Vatican Estate? "Reclaiming what is theirs" as he says. The White Smoke referendum of the Falklanders have declared to whom it belongs.

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jumper says...
9:21am Sat 16 Mar 13

There's a lot more wrong that is not done that should be,I don't no the situation about the rules of flying a flag, but I do know that the rules and promises of improving the quality of life in St Helens have not been stuck to.

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rosered1 says...
4:04pm Sat 16 Mar 13

Whatever the reasons ~ all British citizens should have the right to fly the flag of their country wherever and however they choose. Patriotism is frowned on mightily by the powers that be, but I and many others love our small islands and will fly, wear or show our flags with pride whenever we want to. Good luck Martin. Tis a shame more dont stand up for our patriotic rights.

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bgreenall says...
6:18pm Sat 16 Mar 13

Bill

Only a youngster at the time not very worldly but I can still recall that I read an article a few years before the conflict. It was thought that there could be oil off the Falklands. Maybe the said negotiation could have been a trade in cheap coal from Argentina to crush the miners in return for the Islands. Only time will tell, soon we shall start fracking in Haydock and we Yickers will be wearing ten gallon hats and smoking big cigars the new Texas.

Regards Brian

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WTONSkeptic says...
11:10pm Sun 17 Mar 13

Bangor wrote:
WTONSkeptic wrote:
I wonder if they would have said anything if it was a gay pride flag, or a flag with a crescent moon on it. Im glad its sorted though.

Im an ex ozzie soldier, next week im putting up a pole with the union flag and the Ozzie flag, see if I get a letter..... :)
You will its one flag 1 pole, you cannot have two flags on the same pole.

It is against the law.
so I have to get 2 poles

Report this post »

WTONSkeptic says...
11:14pm Sun 17 Mar 13

Bill Bradbury wrote:
WTONSkeptic wrote:
I wonder if they would have said anything if it was a gay pride flag, or a flag with a crescent moon on it. Im glad its sorted though. Im an ex ozzie soldier, next week im putting up a pole with the union flag and the Ozzie flag, see if I get a letter..... :)
I too am glad it is sorted a story that should never had happened and I just wonder at the neighbours what their problem is. The Council needed this like a hole in the head.

As to the "racists" element it appears that one dare not comment without having the racist jibe thrown at them. I try to avoid racist sterotypes as the Moslem culture has as many facets as does the Christian culture, some extreme many not. I could regard Christian Fundamentalists/Evan

gelicals as extreme as they take the view if it is in the bible it is true with no argument. Anyone who has studied Theology and from where and how Christianity rose, there are many who would challenge the teachings, but I would not detract from anyone's faith or belief, misguided as they may be.
I wasn't being anti Islamic, or anti anything, my point was if it was a minority flag, nothing would have been said due to fear

A flag is a flag, and a pint of pride

Rather than having to get 4 flag poles, I may get a t-shirt may with a rainbow, crescent moon, union jack, the flag of stars, and a black jesus...see if I get arrested or stoned to death

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jumper says...
2:26pm Mon 18 Mar 13

Maybe a definitive flag for the fallen as a mark of a tribute

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Paul Dufficy says...
4:07pm Tue 19 Mar 13

I hope this ex service mans neighbours are bowing their heads in shame. Especially if they are British citisens!
Backstabbing, lowlife, underhanded are all words that come to mind when I think of the insult inflicted on this ex service man and our nation by the narrowminded complainers.
How can any British subject who has any allegiance to our country stoop so low as to make this complaint.
If they are not british and are upset by a British flag flying in Britain then do everyone a favour and simply go home.
As for the council?
Has anyone checked (or even had the audacity to check) if this ex service mans flag conforms to the insane recommended requirements for flying "his" flag in "his garden" i.e. position on property, height, national flag with no adverisement or writing on it.
Leave this guy alone!
Loyality and Patriotism were once firm foundations in the fabric of our nation.
Sadly though as this case has highlighted there are sad acts amongst us today with nothing better to do than to raise issues such as this one.
Disgusting!!!!!!!!!!

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freeglas2000@yahoo.com.au says...
7:45am Wed 20 Mar 13

difinitive flag for the fallen? they fight under the union jack isnt that difinitive enough

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Mike_Ormrod says...
9:42pm Wed 20 Mar 13

It should be against the law. to make a complaint, about someone flying his national flag in that flags country. so arrest his neighbours, or better still deport them to a country were their flag dosnt offend them. lets say back in time to NAZI Germany

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