Fears fire engine cuts at Parr Stocks will cost lives (From St Helens Star)

oh no Parr losing something what ever will we do. Now they might know how those in Ecclleston Park and Rainhill feel. Don't worry I'm sure Rammer will compensate by taxing us to death and giving you more services than us as usual.
Better put those chip pans away.
On another note - cuts over 3 years - isn't that long enough to make adjustments?? Even Liebour said they would cut slower - how chuffin slow do you want it?? @rimmerout#grunewald
theforger

The Labour Party agree cuts need to be made.

But they oppose every cut.

So which public servce would Shaun Woodward cut ?

It's easy to be Father Christmas not so easy to make hard decisions which were they in power labour would have to do. Shaun Woodward is being less than honest which is about par for the course.

Hear hear !!
Not once have I heard where they would cut.
Magic jobs for everybody and some nonsense about........err actually that's about it really.
Bore off Dave.

Perhaps the general public could help makes this cut less painful by stopping their kids from setting fire to wheelie bins every two minutes. Then those who feel the need to rack up the heat under a chip pan when they are half cut could desist from this stupid practice. It's interesting that so few fires in this Borough are the result of completely unexpected events but down to stupidity and evilness.As for the attendance at road accidents, a small land rover / transit van type vehicle would surely be much cheaper to run that an 12 miles to the gallon fire engine ?

pitbullboxing wrote:
oh no Parr losing something what ever will we do. Now they might know how those in Ecclleston Park and Rainhill feel. Don't worry I'm sure Rammer will compensate by taxing us to death and giving you more services than us as usual.
Better put those chip pans away.
On another note - cuts over 3 years - isn't that long enough to make adjustments?? Even Liebour said they would cut slower - how chuffin slow do you want it?? @rimmerout#grunewald

theforger

Eccleston Park (especially) and Rainhill never had certain services to lose in the first place! In reality though in this instance, both of these communites are served from the Fire Station at Delph Lane Whiston, a relatively short distance away. Which ever way you look at it, it is a serious matter that will impact in the future safety of people across St Helens.

I'm interested to know the following. What is the real saving? Is it in having less firefighters on duty at anyone time or is it the cost of engine/appliance or the cost of running a station? Personally I would rather see less fire stations than the number of engines being reduced. According to the reports in other regional newspapers, reducing the number of fire stations but retaining the same number of engines would actually save a further £1 million. Whilst I accept this would mean longer distances to emergencies it would mitigate against when serious multiple emergencies occur. Last week there was a fire in a Liverpool Hotel which required 10 engines to attend. If we are serious about trying to save money how much would an extra £1 million saving (by closing stations) which is then spent on fire prevention across the region save the tax payer in the longer run?
Surely some better strategic thinking on the issue is needed unlike the empty never to be used regional fire control centres which were built under a PFI failed scheme and are still costing us all £50,000 a day.

PUGH,PUGH,BARNY MAGREW,CUTHBERT ,DIBBLE and turn coat tory boy!!!!!,remeber the days when firemen were very well paid but only worked part time and had two or three other jobs during the week,like others have posted i have never read anywere what the LIEBORE party would cut and we get the same retoric from the leader of the council blaiming the goverment for her miss managment when her party was in power,what proof has WOODWARD got that lives will be lost or is it just a vote grabbing scare story to get people to worried.

Parr Stocks Road Fire Station's area,covers from the top of Billinge(Upholland Road) to Mill Lane(Bold Heath).When you have 2 Pumps ,if it is a house fire they turnout together with a total of 9 firefighters (8 for the last few years).On arrival 4 FF's will be wearing Breathing Apparatus and enter the premises to fight the fire and on occasions effect rescues.The drivers will be operating the pump,getting water from hydrants and administering first aid and oxygen and running 'entry control' for the BA Wearers inside the premises.The 2 Oic's will be supervising and controlling the incident.
As you can see there is a lot involved in even in a house fire and having only one pump on the initial attendance is very dangerous to both the Crew and the occupiers.
As someone who worked at this Fire Station for my whole 30 year career as an operational front-line firefighter,I know this is madness and have suffered abuse from residents during these years who said that we had taken ages arriving to burning properties even though we had arrived within 5 minutes!
People will not realise the effect of these cuts until they require the attendance of the Fire Service and it will not be there.
I have lost money over the years by been on strike 3 times(not for more pay) but defending jobs and fighting cuts to the Fire Cover. It's a terrible shame that the number of Firefighters in Merseyside has been cut from 1500 to 750 over the last 15 years,during this time the Budget was never reduced,so the question must be asked "where has all the money gone?"

smith&weston wrote:
Perhaps the general public could help makes this cut less painful by stopping their kids from setting fire to wheelie bins every two minutes. Then those who feel the need to rack up the heat under a chip pan when they are half cut could desist from this stupid practice. It's interesting that so few fires in this Borough are the result of completely unexpected events but down to stupidity and evilness.As for the attendance at road accidents, a small land rover / transit van type vehicle would surely be much cheaper to run that an 12 miles to the gallon fire engine ?

'smith &weston':-Who is going to staff this 'small vehicle'? That fire engine carries all the equipment for dealing with a RTA and also has 'water' for one of the most dangerous hazards at a road accident,'Fire'!
I think that during my career in the Fire Service I saw more deaths and rescues in RTA's than fires and you have not got a clue how difficult and harrowing these incidents are! One thing you need is highly trained personnel and some times plenty of them!

Here is where some of the MFRS Budget has gone:-
The Toxteth Fire Fit Hub in Windsor Street, Toxteth, is looking for staff and a number of positions are available.

The Toxteth Fire Fit Hub is a unique project which sees a Youth Centre with sporting facilities as part of the myplace scheme providing world class facilities for young people.

The Youth Zone at the site includes a sports hall, martial arts studio, gym and dance studio, four five-a-side football pitches, available to hire seven days a week, with some of the other indoor facilities also available for hire, and a community fire station all in one location.

The facility, built by Wates Construction, is based on the corner of Windsor and Upper Warwick Street in the heart of Toxteth. Funding for the new Toxteth Fire Fit Hub was secured through the £2.3 million Department for Education myplace initiative with an additional £2.8 million funding from Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service and £500,000 from Liverpool City Council.

The Hub also aims to make a direct contribution to delivering safer, stronger and healthier neighborhoods via engagement, education and first class facilities.

This has been the problem with the Management of MFRS,they think that they are the 'Social Services' instead of a 'Fire Service'!

jimstevo wrote:
Parr Stocks Road Fire Station's area,covers from the top of Billinge(Upholland Road) to Mill Lane(Bold Heath).When you have 2 Pumps ,if it is a house fire they turnout together with a total of 9 firefighters (8 for the last few years).On arrival 4 FF's will be wearing Breathing Apparatus and enter the premises to fight the fire and on occasions effect rescues.The drivers will be operating the pump,getting water from hydrants and administering first aid and oxygen and running 'entry control' for the BA Wearers inside the premises.The 2 Oic's will be supervising and controlling the incident.
As you can see there is a lot involved in even in a house fire and having only one pump on the initial attendance is very dangerous to both the Crew and the occupiers.
As someone who worked at this Fire Station for my whole 30 year career as an operational front-line firefighter,I know this is madness and have suffered abuse from residents during these years who said that we had taken ages arriving to burning properties even though we had arrived within 5 minutes!
People will not realise the effect of these cuts until they require the attendance of the Fire Service and it will not be there.
I have lost money over the years by been on strike 3 times(not for more pay) but defending jobs and fighting cuts to the Fire Cover. It's a terrible shame that the number of Firefighters in Merseyside has been cut from 1500 to 750 over the last 15 years,during this time the Budget was never reduced,so the question must be asked "where has all the money gone?"

Jim you clearly know what you are talking about but if we have halved the number of firefighters how many people died who would be alive today had the orginal numbers been maintained ? Do we have statistics on that ? If the answer is none or few then you have to question was it overmanned and the well known tales of fire fighters having second jobs playing sports snooker and so fourth. You are the expert not me but please be honest was it like that or were they working flat out all time time and short staffed? One thing we know for sure it almost impossible to get a job as a fireman due to the demand to be one and I have heard tales of it being passed father to son and relatives.

And jim the population is higher than 15 years ago considerably so. And yet can can manage with a greater demand on half the firefighters. Something does not add up and I would broadly think technology is the same.

I joined the Fire Service in 1977 before the National Strike ,when Firefighters pay was terrible and most were on 'Family income supplement'.After the 11 week strike we got linked to the 'Upper Quartile' Skilled workers(Car workers,engineering etc) and the pay got better .We went from a 56 hour week to a 42 hour week in 1979 and worked 2x 9 hour days and 2x 15 night shifts.
We were busy with All the Glass Works ,Sidac ,Leathers Chemicals etc and quite a lot of house fires in flats in Beth Avenue and Parr.
As industry in St Helens declined so did the numbers of fire fighters and Appliances on our Station.When I started in 1977 ,there were 23 crew members ,staffing 2 Fire Engines and 3 Special Appliances on 3 Watches.When I finished in 2007 their were 10 firefighters on each of 4 Watches, Staffing 2 Fire Engines.
The job has changed greatly and we got better personal equipment,such a fire proof ,fire trousers ,tunics,leather boots and gloves instead of yellow 'plastic' trousers and ordinary wellies and 'positive pressure' Breathing Apparatus,and loads of hi-tech equipment on the Appliances to deal with almost any type of incident.
As for the usual 'quips' about playing snooker ,sitting around all day and having jobs outside the fire service.Just not true! Just like any other walk of life anyone can do what ever they want on their time off work but when the pay got better so did drop in firefighters doing second jobs(I never had a 2nd job).
We had loads of firefighters and appliances when times were quiet but things got busy i.e a large fire or a few incidents at once, that's when you need the extra machines and crews.Sometimes you are 'standing by' at large incidents such as factories for days on end.
I can honestly say that 1 Pump at Parr,1 Pump at Eccleston and 1 At N-L-W are not enough to cover the St Helens area and the fire service will end up like the ambulance service.One may turn up if you are lucky!
I have no vested interest now but as a resident of the Borough, I speak as someone who spent 30 years in the job and I fear for the the safety of the people of Merseyside!

I know 3 firemen - they all have second jobs.
I don't want anyone to be in danger , and I have great respect for the brave firemen , but I'm hardly upset about Parr losing a service when the two areas important to me , Rainhill and Eccleston park , pay a huge amount of council tax , and have barely a municipal service between them. The council recently bought 100 apple mac computers - Rainhill library didn't even get a sniff of one. Disgusting.

Fair enough Jim

Firefighters are part-time staff who rarely attend anything more dangerous than testing fire hydrants and smoke alarms to ensure they're still in working order. Our lot seem such a militant bunch and we're always reminded how safety will be compromised if we allow their numbers to decline. I lost any respect I had for the local fire fighters when I had the pleasure of working with them, they're a group of over-paid cocky odious morons. I'd much rather preserve our other essential emergency services than pander to this band of lazy arrogant layabouts.

pitbullboxing wrote:
I know 3 firemen - they all have second jobs.
I don't want anyone to be in danger , and I have great respect for the brave firemen , but I'm hardly upset about Parr losing a service when the two areas important to me , Rainhill and Eccleston park , pay a huge amount of council tax , and have barely a municipal service between them. The council recently bought 100 apple mac computers - Rainhill library didn't even get a sniff of one. Disgusting.

'pitbullboxing',The problem with losing the 2 pump at Parr Stocks Rd,is that it was the back-up Pump to Eccleston ,Newton-Le-Willows when they turn-out to House Fires.Rainhill is covered by Whiston ,Huyton ,backed up by Eccleston and Parr Stations.
Eccleston is covered by it's own Station at Millfields backed up by Parr and Whiston.
It's not Parr that is 'losing' a Service,it is the whole Borough!
St Helens Fire Station will be left empty on many occasions now because the only pump will have to back up the Stations mentioned.
The 1st Pump was the 'Life Saving' Appliance ,with 5 FF's on board and the 2nd 'Pump' went out to minor fires ,such as Bins ,Rubbish ,Car Fires,Grass etc.and went as the 2nd Pump to the other 3 Stations.

As for 'Durrell's' comments ,nothing like generalizations about a group of workers because of his 'experience ' with a few.
As for his assertion that the Fire Service is not an "essential emergency service" worth saving.I hope he remembers that statement if God forbid he needs the attendance of these "over-paid odious moronic band of lazy arrogant layabouts" at a fire or road accident.
As for "never facing anything more dangerous than Hydrant testing",I will treat that statement with the contempt it deserves!
Let's not get into the usual 'name calling' debate,I am flagging up my concerns over a dangerous situation for the people of the Borough and Merseyside,over the reduction from 42 to 28 pumps to cover the whole Area!
Just to put it into context the recent fire at 'The Hard Days Night' Hotel in Liverpool required a 10 Pumps attendance!

I wonder how many full time jobs were lost to unemployed persons by Fire Fighters taking a second full time job shared between themselves on their shift rotas, this practice went on for years unchallenged, and now the same people want sympathy because they may lose their jobs, welcome to the real world Fire Fighters.

No ones looking for sympathy! It's a matter of Public Safety!Merseyside Fire Service has lost 50% of it's operational workforce over the years.This will have a major affect on the people of Merseyside and you will not realize this until you need to call them!
Seem to be 'hitting my head against a wall' here! As someone who did the job for 30 years(and never had a 2nd job) I am just giving advice and my observations on this situation and will take no satisfaction in saying "I told you so"! This is a matter of public safety!

jimstevo wrote:
I joined the Fire Service in 1977 before the National Strike ,when Firefighters pay was terrible and most were on 'Family income supplement'.After the 11 week strike we got linked to the 'Upper Quartile' Skilled workers(Car workers,engineering etc) and the pay got better .We went from a 56 hour week to a 42 hour week in 1979 and worked 2x 9 hour days and 2x 15 night shifts.
We were busy with All the Glass Works ,Sidac ,Leathers Chemicals etc and quite a lot of house fires in flats in Beth Avenue and Parr.
As industry in St Helens declined so did the numbers of fire fighters and Appliances on our Station.When I started in 1977 ,there were 23 crew members ,staffing 2 Fire Engines and 3 Special Appliances on 3 Watches.When I finished in 2007 their were 10 firefighters on each of 4 Watches, Staffing 2 Fire Engines.
The job has changed greatly and we got better personal equipment,such a fire proof ,fire trousers ,tunics,leather boots and gloves instead of yellow 'plastic' trousers and ordinary wellies and 'positive pressure' Breathing Apparatus,and loads of hi-tech equipment on the Appliances to deal with almost any type of incident.
As for the usual 'quips' about playing snooker ,sitting around all day and having jobs outside the fire service.Just not true! Just like any other walk of life anyone can do what ever they want on their time off work but when the pay got better so did drop in firefighters doing second jobs(I never had a 2nd job).
We had loads of firefighters and appliances when times were quiet but things got busy i.e a large fire or a few incidents at once, that's when you need the extra machines and crews.Sometimes you are 'standing by' at large incidents such as factories for days on end.
I can honestly say that 1 Pump at Parr,1 Pump at Eccleston and 1 At N-L-W are not enough to cover the St Helens area and the fire service will end up like the ambulance service.One may turn up if you are lucky!
I have no vested interest now but as a resident of the Borough, I speak as someone who spent 30 years in the job and I fear for the the safety of the people of Merseyside!

Just out of curiosity jimstevo how many times were you called out to Leathers Chemicals for an emergency in your years of service and not just for a cup of tea when doing observations, be very careful with your reply as I know the answer to this question.

'Not Bothered' Oh it's a test!
Had a few 'Cloud Burst' Incidents there! That's the ones we were actually told about!Also Major Exercises there ,usually on a Sunday Morning. More jobs there in later years when it become 'Pakcell'(think that's how it was spelt)
A few incidents at Sidac across the road(a scary place)!

'Not Bothered',just realized it changed to Hays Chemicals,

jimstevo wrote:
'Not Bothered',just realized it changed to Hays Chemicals,

Well it was a common mistake no matter who had a problem in Lancots Lane Leathers / Hays always got the blame just like you people opened their mouths and then put their foot in it without checking the facts.

"Not Bothered" So there were never any incidents at Leathers/Hays Chemicals?As for your comment:-"just like you people opened their mouths and then put their foot in it without checking the facts"

You have never done that in these Forums??

'Not Bothered' Just checked my facts:-
In recent times, part of the original glassworks site in Lancots Lane was used by Leathers, Pakcel, Hays Chemicals and then Albion, which closed in 2002.

The British Sidac plant was a major employer in Sutton, which expanded from 22 acres in 1933 to 40 acres and 1,600 workers in 1973. Hays was a controversial sulphuric acid plant. In 1986, 4000 people signed a petition demanding its closure because of leaks and fallout of oleum, ie. fuming sulphuric acid. Their 1987 planning application to construct a new sulphur processing unit was rejected by St.Helens Council after a campaign by residents. In 1988 the Hays management bought the company from the Kuwait Investment Office. At the time this was the second largest management buyout in the country.

On May 19th 1989, Councillor Eric Hutchinson collapsed in Baxters Lane after walking into fumes that had emanated from the Hays plant. He recovered after being taken to hospital. On July 1st 1989, there was another bad leak at Hays which was caused by a rupture in an oleum tank. For this the company was prosecuted and fined £3000. To calm fears in the district, Hays held open days and resident meetings plus mock emergencies, that were codenamed 'Cloudburst', took place.

I suppose none of this happened!

Isn't the Internet wonderful!
From the 'New Scientist '3rd July 1986:-
"Safety Inspectors on Merseyside have launched an investigation into the release of Sulphuric Acid which produced a toxic cloud near homes,shops and a hospital at the weekend.(Sat 30th June 1986).
The chemical was released when a massive storage steel storage tank ruptured,on premises owned by Hayes Chemicals,4 Kms from the Centre of St Helens.
The tank contained 110 Tonnes of Oleum ,a concentrated form of Sulphuric Acid . Roads within half a kilometre of the works were cordoned off and Police with loudspeakers advised residents to stay indoors and wash if their skin itched.
The accident happened when a heating vent on the tank failed,leading to a build up of pressure.This blew a a gash 1.5 metres long in the container."

jimstevo wrote:
Isn't the Internet wonderful!
From the 'New Scientist '3rd July 1986:-
"Safety Inspectors on Merseyside have launched an investigation into the release of Sulphuric Acid which produced a toxic cloud near homes,shops and a hospital at the weekend.(Sat 30th June 1986).
The chemical was released when a massive storage steel storage tank ruptured,on premises owned by Hayes Chemicals,4 Kms from the Centre of St Helens.
The tank contained 110 Tonnes of Oleum ,a concentrated form of Sulphuric Acid . Roads within half a kilometre of the works were cordoned off and Police with loudspeakers advised residents to stay indoors and wash if their skin itched.
The accident happened when a heating vent on the tank failed,leading to a build up of pressure.This blew a a gash 1.5 metres long in the container."

I could have told you all that without looking on the internet as a ex employee at this site for longer than you were a fireman I can tell you that I never collapsed from fumes nor in my memory did any else for that matter, but you have answered my original question as to how many times did the fire service attend incidents at the plant, have another search and see if you can find any more, and by the way there is no "e" in Hays

Passed the the test then!ha ha. You never collapsed but it made you 'not bothered' .Hope you weren't writing to the papers in those days instead of keeping an eye on the pressure in the Acid Tanks! (joke!). Scary place to work!Respect!

Not Bothered, it sounds to me you have a big, big chip on your shoulder.

Sumner wrote:
Not Bothered, it sounds to me you have a big, big chip on your shoulder.

Well if 4000 people signed a petition to put you out of work would you not be a bit miffed, most of those who signed did so because because someone stuck it under their nose and sighed without reading it as happens with most petitions. Not only petitions but personal abuse to employees if we left the plant to visit local businesses and we were told not to answer back as if we ignored them they would get fed up, The whole anti Leathers campaign was led by a few Councillors trying to make names for themselves by whipping a frenzy, finally if the 60 jobs at Leathers / Hays were not important to the community why should we bother about a few firemen who get paid to polish equipment and play snooker most of the time.

Jimstevo I am with you on this and what you are getting on this comment site is a host of anti trade unionists trotting out Tory rhetoric on all the "practices" Spanish or otherwise, which Sankey and I have discussed over the years.
Join the club as teachers were the public enemy No.1 last week for daring to stand up for their conditions of service. You are in their sights this week.

Forget the personalities and the reasons for Fire Brigade cuts, as I wrote many times over the last 5 years the FBU, the POA and the teacher unions would be in the sights of the Tories whenever they got back into power having smashed the NUM.

I read today that, when they win the next election by playing the immigration and anti EU ticket, they are considering (Theresa May) to opt out of the human Rights which will make working conditions and H & S regulation even more dangerous.

It won't impact on Sankey and all the other retirees, including myself, but will continue their campaign against anyone who works in the public sector. Orwell's "Animal Farmers" the lot of them-- two legs bad, 4 legs good, but in this case it's Public bad private good. You won't change their views. Well and truly made up. Firefighters will end up getting to fires pushing a handcart-now there is a saving worth doing??

Bill,We were a Union that stuck up for it's self and tried to defend the Service from cuts over the last 20 years and the Government made sure that the they went out of their way to destroy the Union and the job.(by the way it was Labour that started this process as you know)!
Teachers were next and now the Police are in the firing line. The Fire Service is at such a low level (numbers wise) that it is ripe for 'Privatisation' and watch out for this happening in the coming years with the like of G4S standing by to step in!
This is now not a case of losing jobs,they have already gone!It is now becoming a case of Public Safety!

Not Bothered wrote:

Sumner wrote:
Not Bothered, it sounds to me you have a big, big chip on your shoulder.

Well if 4000 people signed a petition to put you out of work would you not be a bit miffed, most of those who signed did so because because someone stuck it under their nose and sighed without reading it as happens with most petitions. Not only petitions but personal abuse to employees if we left the plant to visit local businesses and we were told not to answer back as if we ignored them they would get fed up, The whole anti Leathers campaign was led by a few Councillors trying to make names for themselves by whipping a frenzy, finally if the 60 jobs at Leathers / Hays were not important to the community why should we bother about a few firemen who get paid to polish equipment and play snooker most of the time.

Whilst we are doing a spelling test, there is no "h" in signed, just as there is no "e in Hays.
By the way, who's that bloke on the right of the picture???

I don't know what makes you think I am retired bill I was I was as lucky as you taxpayer funded pension.

You are right about one thing the government need to stamp down on the teaching unions who have been cheating the public for years. Schools are run for the benefit of the teachers not the pupils or parents which s why we have one of the worst education systems in the world despite it being the most expensive, Not as bad as the teaching but I also agree with dealing with the fire ad police unions which again run the service for the benefit of those who wrk in it not the public. Who can possibly believe we get a good service from the police ? Have you tried phoning them recently other than 999 it's impossible no one ever answers the phone.

The general public could not care less about this it's a union issue and its noticeable the only people who have spoken against it on here are two union people. This is in a strong labour town what would the comments be in a Tory town?

That says everything.

Jimstevo some of my friends were prison officers just now retired and you are correct the Fire brigade will be privatised as are most of the prisons where the inmates run them due to severe staff cuts. The Academisation of schools is the privatisation of education where heads are free, and do, grant themselves massive pay rises well over £100,000.
Having visited your station I have seen the intensive training that goes on daily to keep fitness levels and cutting this service will make response times much greater. (not sitting around playing darts and supping tea)

Yes you are right Labour are as equally responsible in the past for advocating cuts but when have we ever had a Labour Government? Some of our Cllrs. I have great doubts where their loyalties lie, cerainly not to the Trades Unions and its workers as the current teachers' strike at Newton illustrates. They are prepared to sit on their hands and do nothing. Hope ACAS this Thursday makes someone see sense.

Bill what is it you are wanting to orchestrate a return to mass strikes and the unrest we saw in the 1970,s all directed from your billinge headquarters ? The rest of the country moved on from that years ago apart from one or two public sector silos. I accept the terms and conditions are not what they were but the labour government brought in mass immigration cheap labour and short term contracts what did the unions say about that ? The unions as far as I can see are in favour of mass immigration and under cutting of manual labour. Who speaks for the working poor in Britain not the Labour Party and not the unions who just look after their own which is ostensibly benefit people and public sector the captive vote.

The Unions in favour of mass immigration from where did you get that? I recall strike action in the construction industry when a firm was bringing in its own workers from Italy and the labour Government intervened.

I wish you would stop inventing things and when did I recommend "mass strikes" and under what authority in the current Trades Union law have I the power to do that from Billinge? Talk sense please! This strike is authorised under National Trade Union Legislation if it wasn't it would be illiegal.

Losing an engine is not just 'Parr' losing something, its the rest of us losing something that saves our lives! That station covers for all other areas if they are called out, it covers two of our major roads. It isn't an easy job and and I would rather they were well resourced and arrive in good time when they come to rescue me!

Bill Bradbury wrote:
The Unions in favour of mass immigration from where did you get that? I recall strike action in the construction industry when a firm was bringing in its own workers from Italy and the labour Government intervened.

I wish you would stop inventing things and when did I recommend "mass strikes" and under what authority in the current Trades Union law have I the power to do that from Billinge? Talk sense please! This strike is authorised under National Trade Union Legislation if it wasn't it would be illiegal.

I was actually joking about you organising strikes from your house in billinge.

The unions have never spoken out against mass immigration in fact on question time or news night most have supported it. And yet it's put thousands of people out of work or reduced labour rates and put pressure on social housing. The people hurt by this are the working poor traditionally people who would be trade unionists or labour followers. The only people these organisations stand for now is public sector and benefits claimants.