Teachers set for further strike action (From St Helens Star)

And Justice For All says...
7:41pm Mon 11 Feb 13

Why is it just this one school that's got teachers striking?! I would want answers if my kid went there. I've said this before. No other schools have been affected in this way. I would suggest these teachers are worried they could be found out to be inaffective. It's time to grow up and set a good example to the children in your care - change happens. Sometimes you must embrace it and work with it. A very poor and sad situation. Again children miss out on a days education.

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Bill Bradbury says...
12:09pm Tue 12 Feb 13

Well, Mr. Council "Toady" (or is it spokesman?) a very interesting comment which tells me more about you than the dispute on which I have written at length previously.
By your sharp "insight" on the capabability of those out on strike one wonders why in your school you need an appraisal policy as your sweeping judgement puts them down as "inaffective".
The dispute could be solved quickly if the head and chair of Governors were alllowed to sit down with the unions without HR jumping all over them to hold the line, whatever that is, which to my knowledge "it is Council Policy".

No other surrounding Authority has treated its teachers and schools in this way by leaving it to schools to determine what appraisal policy they adopt.

Interesting to see today there appears an ever increasing size of HR employees and bosses staring down those at the gate obviously they have no work or jobs to go to. The National President of NASUWT, who was at the gate today, commented that she has never seen such attempted intimidation in all the pickets she had been on throughout the Country.

As they are not prepared even to speak to the Union despite many attempts last week, calls totally ignored, it is their intransigence that is putting the school at risk more-so with higlhy paid advisors drafted in to do a day's work. Welcome to the chalk face!

If Ofsted go in tomorrow or worse still Gove pulls it into an Academy then everyone will become a loser. That is why it is important for those who have it in their power to start talking instead of ignoring calls.

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Sankey says...
2:37pm Tue 12 Feb 13

Bill you are so involved in this I think you are losing persective. It's a total mystery to the public what this is about.

We all have to have appraisal systems its part of modern life.

The days of teachers making up their own rules are hopefully on the way out.

I am sure you will come back with the usual none sense about Tories and doffing caps but that's no consolation to the parents most of whom in work will have appraisal systems to work to and I am sure wont have sympathy with teachers wanting to be exempt from real life.

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And Justice For All says...
3:59pm Tue 12 Feb 13

Bill you clearly do not know a thing about me. You could not be anhy wronger. I think this council is a disgrace and the government as a whole is not much better. I am merely pointing out that this is the ONLY school we are hearing of that has teachers taking action against what is the norm these days. Do they honestly expect not to be assessed at how they do their jobs? I think the point of this is being warped by people with another motive. Dont forget, through appraisals, those who do a good job are rewarded too. I do not know about the teachers in question but I DO know that a lot of teachers do an amazing job in difficult circumstances. Which is what makes me wonder about those kicking up a stink. What is SO wrong in having the chance to show how good you are? If there's a challenge to that, then you follow up with action. It is stated inthis very report that Headteachers would be allowed to carry out unlimited visits to the classroom would stick to the standard one or two per term .
I am dyed in the wool union but I cannot agree with these actions. Bill, please step into the year 2013, a time when pretty much EVERY working person is assessed on their job. Perhaps you should be assesed?

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And Justice For All says...
4:00pm Tue 12 Feb 13

Oooh typo! Maybe if my teacher wasnt striking on spelling day, I'd be ok!

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And Justice For All says...
5:12pm Tue 12 Feb 13

I should clarify that Headteachers would most likely stick to the standard one or two observations. Been a long day!

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Bill Bradbury says...
5:38pm Tue 12 Feb 13

Justice, if you really knew the details of this case you would understand. Teachers at Newton are not refusing to be appraised but only under the previous system which worked perfectly well as heads have told most of their staff in schools that they will not see any change under the new system but fail to answer then why change it? That is why most schools have not taken action they belive what they have been told. We will see.

As a Governor of 4 schools I know in one we "improved" teachers who were failing under appraisal before any rot set in and we were able to move them out if they failed. This is "Gove's plan" (a sentence which the Star website did not print) not a headteacher's because Gove thought THEY & Governors were not doing their job in removing in HIS words 1000's of incompetant teachers. As St.Helens has had the best results ever then the supposedly poor previous system must have been working.

My annoyance in this dispute is that St.Helens and its HR are playing "hardball" and refusing to let the Head and Chair of Governors at Newton to come to some written protocol; because at the few meetings they had, HR would point to some sentence in the document telling the Chair it can't be done as well as their "failsafe" fall-back "it is council Policy" --note agreed before and during a consultation was being given to Governors who were also told that this was "Statutory" and the only game in town. I know I was there and heard it myself. Sutton Academy, free of this arm bending stuck with the old policy, as do many schools in neighbouring LA's. St.Helens did not trust its schools to make their own minds up. They made it "Council Policy" as one Cllr. told me "to be seen to be progressive"!

To date nobody is returning calls from the Union so it is they who are using children to make its point.

Another issue which is background to this dispute but not the cause of it but may well lead to others in the future is that Gove has now abandonned National Pay scale and has placed whether a teacher gets more and now even less, in their hands, note Their hands with no training or any indication of Governors' role. What a way to run a system and why the NASUWT at Newton can see the possible future with a head who may not as be benevolent as their own (This is NOT a personal action against him and Chair) but how teacher pay will help to balance the budgets in the future especially if they become PRIVATE as is an Academy under Gove's rules. If this dispute goes on there is a serious risk that Gove will put his inspectors in, fail the school so he can take it out of the control of St.Helens and it becomes the first Primary Academy in the town. In that case we are ALL LOSERS.

Finally this is a ligitimate Trades dispute under the Act which so far as I know such action has not been outlawed.

Give the Tories enough time they soon will. I could write more but by now you are yawning!!?? I hope that someone has the guts to meet with the union and get it resolved. My toes were frozen off this morning which I am sure the considerable HR presence were as well. There is then some justice!!??

Justice, if you really knew the details of this case you would understand. Teachers at Newton are not refusing to be appraised but only under the previous system which worked perfectly well as heads have told most of their staff in schools that they will not see any change under the new system but fail to answer then why change it? That is why most schools have not taken action they belive what they have been told. We will see. As a Governor of 4 schools I know in one we "improved" teachers who were failing under appraisal before any rot set in and we were able to move them out if they failed. This is "Gove's plan" (a sentence which the Star website did not print) not a headteacher's because Gove thought THEY & Governors were not doing their job in removing in HIS words 1000's of incompetant teachers. As St.Helens has had the best results ever then the supposedly poor previous system must have been working. My annoyance in this dispute is that St.Helens and its HR are playing "hardball" and refusing to let the Head and Chair of Governors at Newton to come to some written protocol; because at the few meetings they had, HR would point to some sentence in the document telling the Chair it can't be done as well as their "failsafe" fall-back "it is council Policy" --note agreed before and during a consultation was being given to Governors who were also told that this was "Statutory" and the only game in town. I know I was there and heard it myself. Sutton Academy, free of this arm bending stuck with the old policy, as do many schools in neighbouring LA's. St.Helens did not trust its schools to make their own minds up. They made it "Council Policy" as one Cllr. told me "to be seen to be progressive"! To date nobody is returning calls from the Union so it is they who are using children to make its point. Another issue which is background to this dispute but not the cause of it but may well lead to others in the future is that Gove has now abandonned National Pay scale and has placed whether a teacher gets more and now even less, in their hands, note Their hands with no training or any indication of Governors' role. What a way to run a system and why the NASUWT at Newton can see the possible future with a head who may not as be benevolent as their own (This is NOT a personal action against him and Chair) but how teacher pay will help to balance the budgets in the future especially if they become PRIVATE as is an Academy under Gove's rules. If this dispute goes on there is a serious risk that Gove will put his inspectors in, fail the school so he can take it out of the control of St.Helens and it becomes the first Primary Academy in the town. In that case we are ALL LOSERS. Finally this is a ligitimate Trades dispute under the Act which so far as I know such action has not been outlawed. Give the Tories enough time they soon will. I could write more but by now you are yawning!!?? I hope that someone has the guts to meet with the union and get it resolved. My toes were frozen off this morning which I am sure the considerable HR presence were as well. There is then some justice!!?? Bill Bradbury

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Sankey says...
11:46pm Tue 12 Feb 13

Good god bill what a collection of unrelated grips mashed together. So they change the appraisal system from one which you thought worked perfectly well. But you are not the arbiter the employer is that's normally how it works.

As for the rest of it I am exhausted reading it and fighting Michael gove seems to be the gist of it. It sounds like a 1970's political strike to me.

What a farce !

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And Justice For All says...
7:42am Wed 13 Feb 13

Just as I thought Bill. This is about sticking it to an unpopular minister (of which there are MANY I agree, on BOTH sides) and to be honest, I really couldn't be arsed reading your diatribe.Just as I suspected though, through gazing through your comment (often through glazed bored eyes) you have confirmed my suspicions that there are other motives at work in this action.Playing politics at the detriment to schoolkids is disgraceful. Is it really worth making the childrens education suffer? Shame on anyone supporting this strike action. On this one, Bill, you're wrong.

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And Justice For All says...
9:24am Wed 13 Feb 13

By the way Bill, I am also a school Governor so I do know the situation very well. Our teachers understand that sometimes there is change and they fully understand it. There has been no hoodwinking. I'm sure I'll regret posting this when you post another borefest about unconnected gripes you seem to have with the "establishment". Don't get me wrong, on other subjects that we've both posted on I have agreed with you, but not this time.

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chasmcn says...
8:29pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Sankey wrote:
Good god bill what a collection of unrelated grips mashed together. So they change the appraisal system from one which you thought worked perfectly well. But you are not the arbiter the employer is that's normally how it works.

As for the rest of it I am exhausted reading it and fighting Michael gove seems to be the gist of it. It sounds like a 1970's political strike to me.

What a farce !

Are we talking about the same fella who as just had to abandon his plans on replacing GCSE exams made a disaster in abandoning building new schools building program ho forgot unless its a free school then it can have as much money as the school wants at the expense of every other school around it.

Whose dept is that poor that he had answer to the Commons select committee on education over their poor performance to parliamentary questions

A story in the paper this morning that he is dangling carrots of upto £65,000 to head teachers of primary schools to become academies here was me thinking the country was broke ?

its all in the plan to make schools profit making ,down the road parents will be paying a fee to send their kids to school

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Sankey says...
9:28pm Wed 13 Feb 13

Chasmcn all well and good but none of that justifies this strike, Unless of course it's a political strike and these teachers are being used as pawns to get at the government.

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And Justice For All says...
7:29am Thu 14 Feb 13

Great comment Sankey. At least someone at else has seen through this like I have. Good call!

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Bill Bradbury says...
8:07am Thu 14 Feb 13

Thanks Chasman at least one person is aware of the big picture, not "unconnected gripes" as Justice and Sankey appear to comment upon.

As to Justice who appears to have knee-jerked his hand up (if that is a physical possibility) to do his head's bidding and who probably was at the forefront over the last 10 years of a perfectly good appraisal system by advocating a change, has "his teachers" accepting a system that was imposed not agreed. Whatever his head has told them which they have accepted, I hope that in the future with perhaps a less enlightened head,they will come to realise to what they have signed up to, unlimited observations resulting in a pay decision up or down to probably balance his budget.

The only ones "playing politics" is an Authority which is prepared to siton their hands and refuse to meet and settle.

Wherever "Mr. Justice" works I am pleased he has accepted that his appraisal and performance will be allowed to be read by me or any "Tom, Dick or Harry" perhaps put up on nearby lamposts so we can all see what he is really like, which, if he has even read the current imposed procedure his school is able to do.

I feel no shame in supporting decent young teachers standing up for themselves and excercising their democratic right to protest, something that is obviously alien to some who would do away with all unions if they could.
Yes Sankey we agree once more it is part of the result of this Tory Government's policy if you wish to make a protest over an Appraisal System into a political strike.

Sorry for the "diatribe" and "exhaustion". why do I bother?? "They walk amongst us" as the horror film explained and some are even a Governor.

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Sankey says...
10:34am Thu 14 Feb 13

Bill all you have done is lash out at everyone no justification whatsoever. You have been going on about Michael gove for the past 12 months and this is your chosen battle on the backs of those teachers, parents and young pupils. I can understand you if they were closing the school but an appraisal system ?

You also have said in psst posts this coud be the next grunwick really ? What you mean is in your fantasies this will develop into a grunwick and Michael gove will resign.

I would say pathetic but that is too weak a word. Those teachers should get back to work as soon as possible and you to stop your political games with people's lives.

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Bill Bradbury says...
11:06am Thu 14 Feb 13

Sankey those who are playing "political games" are in the Town Hall. As for me playing with peoples lives the decision to take action is down to those onstrike supported by their union.
i am in fact an intersted bystander who is in full possession of the facts being this unions secretary for over 30 years.

My efforts on this site is to make you aware of the facts as I see them. For you to put on any other interpretation
is a bit rich, or would you prefer to hear one side of the argument which in this case you are totally with the bosses, which is no surprise by you comments over the years? If you had your way Trade Unions would be a thing of the past.

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And Justice For All says...
11:30am Thu 14 Feb 13

Oh Bill that's given me a good chuckle. Power to the people eh, and freedom for Tooting while we're at it!
You're preaching about unions sticking up for their members and such which I fully agree on. What you are not grasping is that on THIS occassion, the union IS picking the wrong battle. There's no public sympathy and the only ones that suffer here are the members and the children. It's happening,save it and fight a more important battle because they're coming I'm sure. This is going to look damaging to no one else but the union.
Oh and don't think that you know people and then judge them on here because it is only you that looks foolish.
Ta ta!

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Bill Bradbury says...
1:02pm Thu 14 Feb 13

Sankey you know nothing about the issues nor having even read either appraisal policy and as usual try to belittle (face! am I bothered!) or misrepresent. My reference to Grunwick was for us NOT to get into that situation.

I am not going to respond anymore unless someone makes other outrageous statements only to say that this dispute can be settled by agreeing to no more than 3 hours observation, unless there is a real problem of capabability and that that appraisal remains confidential to the head and his chair of Governors, other governors being aware if there is an appeal before an appropriate commitee. Now what is so insouluable about that but as I repeat with no one from the LA talking then who is prolonging this strike? cetainly not the Union.

I am sure you are not that perverse. To what "agreements" other schools have come to is their business.

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Sankey says...
1:54pm Thu 14 Feb 13

Bill I have not read both appraisal policies no but why shoud I ? All as I know is the teachers are on strike because of an appraisal policy they don't like. That seems surreal to me and I am sure so do the parents. We have repeatedly asked you for an expansion and you have wrote a lot of words when dissected just indicate you don't like Michael gove. What this specific strike has got to do with you I don't know but you seem to be facilitating trouble along the lines of the political wildcat strikes we last saw in the 1970's. your tone from your last post indicates you are seeing the error of your ways although I don't expect you to admit so. The teachers will return to work and the whole thing will have been a waste of time. I am not one to praise Marie Rimmer but this time she and the council are right. The people of Newton le willows deserve good performing teachers and those that do perform well will be rewarded what on earth is so wrong with that. Let that be the end of it and of the out of date political agitating. Happy to have unions but they must fight the right battles and this one most certainly is not it.

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Bill Bradbury says...
8:33pm Thu 14 Feb 13

Oh Dear Marie getting praise from a Tory, things must be bad in the council but as I wrote Labour must be turning into not so closit Tories-Animal Farm yet again.
Sankey your remark has cheered me up. Off to the pub with Marie the Tory in mind, one of your best comments. (or are you becoming a closit Labour-hope for you yet?

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Sankey says...
8:59pm Thu 14 Feb 13

Bill why do you divide humanity into Tories and non Tories?

And what is the practical difference between Tories and labour anyway ?

What goes on in your head my friend?

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Bill Bradbury says...
8:55am Fri 15 Feb 13

"What's the difference"? sometimes it is hard to see. Certainly we have not had a Labour Government for some decades. Something else we agree on.
I just like winding you up.You never disappoint!?

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Sankey says...
10:52am Fri 15 Feb 13

Glad to be of service.

Hopefully the teachers will now return to do the job they are paid to do.

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Teachers set for further strike action (From St Helens Star)

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Teachers at Newton-le-Willows Primary School set for further strike action

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